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  • gi under hakama?

    why doesnt kendoists wear gi under their hakamas like in aikido for example?

  • #2
    Pants under hakama? It's because it get's pretty warm and wearing a hakama instead of those 'karate pants' (sorry for my lack of terminology) gives you better ventilation. In fact,traditional kendoka (mainly sensei these days) practice wearing hakama with NOTHING underneath!

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    • #3
      Yeah besides it being hot enough with just the hakama...

      1: Aikido gis do not cover as much as kendo gis, if you were to wear just the hakama in aikido people would see your undies.

      2: Aikido involves a lot of flipping action (ukemi); once again the pants will keep your parts private.

      3: Last but not least, kendo is not aikido.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Andoy
        Pants under hakama? It's because it get's pretty warm and wearing a hakama instead of those 'karate pants' (sorry for my lack of terminology) gives you better ventilation. In fact,traditional kendoka (mainly sensei these days) practice wearing hakama with NOTHING underneath!
        You'll find that it isn't only teachers who practice freedom kendo

        http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/sho...hlight=freedom

        Jakob (Freedom kendo advocate)

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        • #5
          I've practiced aikido for 14 years and kendo for only a couple of months now and I found it VERY strange to not wear dogi pants under my hakama. That, plus not wearing an obi means that I'm still a sartorial disaster

          I don't buy the "too hot" argument though - I sweat lots in aikido and I've never thought of shedding my keks to cool down

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Andoy
            Pants under hakama? It's because it get's pretty warm and wearing a hakama instead of those 'karate pants' (sorry for my lack of terminology) gives you better ventilation. In fact,traditional kendoka (mainly sensei these days) practice wearing hakama with NOTHING underneath!
            i am not asking to wear gi (pants ) instead of the hakama, no need to be a rocket scientist to understand the difference of comfort ...

            and i am not trying to compare aikido with kendo! but thanks for the creative answer with 3 very important intellectual points (kendo is not aikido!)
            lets get serious ...

            the reason why i am asking was ;
            as much as i know, i believe that hakama was something that samurai used to wear over their gi to protect themself while horseriding and to hide their feet movement.
            as we are trying to follow the tradition, i was wondering why we dont wear the gi under ...

            i guess the answer was logical .... HOT!
            but this doesnt mean that people who practice aikido have air conditioning systems under their hakama!
            Last edited by pamiro; 13th November 2003, 11:07 PM.

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            • #7
              I came from the other direction - after practising kendo, I trained aikido for a while. I never got good enough to wear hakama but I found wearing the pants underneath very strange - the combination of zubon, uwagi, obi and then hakama on top must be awfully bulky. I also found all the mysticism associated with the hakama (in that club) a little hard to swallow.

              Wouldn't it be more comfy to just wear a pair of close-fitting shorts underneath for modesty and use a iaido-style obi to control the uwagi? That way there wouldn't be a knot.

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              • #8
                hi neil,
                i know people who practice aikido with iaido-style obi but with the pants ....
                but theres a guy in my aikido dojo who uses a cut pants under(like bermuda shorts)...that looks comfortable !

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                • #9
                  From a Judo background

                  Coming from a Judo background, never very good, but the knees in the trousers always had a little bit of padding on them as well... Not loads but just a little.

                  Surely this would be another for wearing them under Hakama, especially the Tetron Hakama which can give you burns on your knees.

                  No jokes about carpet burns on the knees... please I already thought of that as I wrote the post ;-)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pamiro
                    i am not asking to wear gi (pants ) instead of the hakama, no need to be a rocket scientist to understand the difference of comfort ...

                    and i am not trying to compare aikido with kendo! but thanks for the creative answer with 3 very important intellectual points (kendo is not aikido!)
                    lets get serious ...

                    the reason why i am asking was ;
                    as much as i know, i believe that hakama was something that samurai used to wear over their gi to protect themself while horseriding and to hide their feet movement.
                    as we are trying to follow the tradition, i was wondering why we dont wear the gi under ...

                    i guess the answer was logical .... HOT!
                    but this doesnt mean that people who practice aikido have air conditioning systems under their hakama!
                    if you're going to try use a "tradition" arguement
                    dogi are actually a fairly recent creation iirc
                    the "traditional" garb was a kimono, with a kamishimo (heard of this, dunno what it is, assuming similar to haori) and hakama worn over it
                    for undergarments, most males had a fundoshi and....yea....a fundoshi

                    like i said, iirc, the whole dogi pants and such thing is actually rather recent
                    my guess is somewhere round meiji when more western clothing styles became popular in japan, but don't quote me on that
                    for some reason i think they're linked to Kano but once again, i'm not sure about that
                    on the flip side it think you should remember aikido actually isn't a traditional martial art in the sense of age and direct link to ancient traditions
                    its more of a rather recent (in a relative sense) synthesis of older traditional arts. keeping that in mind, aikido likely used what was used during its time, dogi
                    though in keeping with this current thought path i'm on, in the few pictures i've seen of kodokan judo during Kano's time; they didn't use dogi either

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                    • #11
                      As a kendoka, I went to a seminar with Obata Toshishiro, where I was expecting to only do some sword work. If you have never seen this guy cut in person, it's an experience!
                      Anyway, He also teaches Aikijutsu, and started into some of these techniques and wanted me to try, so.... forgetting that I had no underwear under my Hakama, I proceeded toallow myself to be thrown. (Ugly Visual) But when you go flying Ass over teakettle, your Hakama legs kinda fly open and balloon out. wWith no support, "The Boys" start slamming around in an uncomfortable way.
                      Needless to say, the women in the class were looking at the ground trying not to laugh too loud...... Gi Pants, dont need em in Kendo.....Underwear, don't need em in kendo, But never fly without em.

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                      • #12
                        hi,why we dont wear gi under hakama?

                        That's because it is a tradition in ancient Japan.The kendoka wear nothing under hakama.
                        So many male(a little femal) kendoka wear nothing under hakama and many female kendoka wear nothing under kendogi now

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                        • #13
                          In Japan you don't see dogi pants worn under a hakama. It seems to be something started "in the west". As for not wearing an obi..that is a sloppy habit of kendoka.

                          as much as i know, i believe that hakama was something that samurai used to wear over their gi to protect themself while horseriding and to hide their feet movement.
                          as we are trying to follow the tradition, i was wondering why we dont wear the gi under ...


                          Hakama were not just the dress of samurai. It was the common fashion of the day, just as kimono.(It is important to understand that there are variations, like field haks, which basically look like baggy trousers.). The myth that they were used to hide foot movement is widely spread, but is just that...a myth.

                          Aidoka started wearing hakama, because Ueshiba did not want people running about in their underwear, which is basically where the current dogi used in karate, judo, etc finds it roots. Later it became important in all arts, because practitioners did not want to ruin their daily clothes, particularly when the daily where of gents was a suit.

                          Sometimes I would love to wear my dogi under my hak in Iaido... Dojo in Japan are generally not heated or air-conditioned. The winters can get pretty brutal, however it is written policy that you only wear hak, kekogi and obi. (Yes underwear are allowed!). Other "optional/acceptable additions are knee pads and tabi.

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                          • #14
                            You do it because your Sensei Says so...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
                              I came from the other direction - after practising kendo, I trained aikido for a while. I never got good enough to wear hakama but I found wearing the pants underneath very strange - the combination of zubon, uwagi, obi and then hakama on top must be awfully bulky. I also found all the mysticism associated with the hakama (in that club) a little hard to swallow.

                              Wouldn't it be more comfy to just wear a pair of close-fitting shorts underneath for modesty and use a iaido-style obi to control the uwagi? That way there wouldn't be a knot.

                              In aikido-circles the possibility of wearing hakama is humorusly referred to as "little shodan". I can see no good reason for not allowing hakama from day on, even though I think I have heard all the arguments. Just another way of marking hierarchy in budo.
                              Nobody wears Fundoshi, the traditional loincloth? I tried freeballing in kendo, didnt like it. Wearing pants under the hakama is just too hot, even in our arctic winters. When I did iai in a subzero environment on a concrete floor in a unheated aikidodojo for a whole winter, I used my judopants under.

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