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  • #46
    Originally posted by D'Artagnan View Post
    btw - I have a Kamon on one of my Do, because I think it looks cool. I also have another Do that instead of a Kamon, features an image of Raijin wearing a Softbank Hawks baseball jersey...
    Ha! And here I was expecting to get weird looks for my Hanshin Tigers tenugui!

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by b8amack View Post
      There seem to be two separate objections going on, inasmuch as I understand jjcruiser's and fudo-shin's comments.

      1) That wearing kamon is somehow disrespectful without the "right". (Which is just bs) Which non-Japanese will (almost?) never have (also bs, and really a weird sort of inverse racism.)
      Not disrespectful, just being a tryhard. If your cool with that then go for it! After more than 8 years together, I could probably wear my other half's family kamon but I won't because it just doesn't feel right to wear something that denotes another family's name.

      As for the inverse racism, how far do you go? In this thread alone, you have called people bullshitters, liars and now some type of racist? FFS!

      Originally posted by b8amack View Post
      2) That anything on the do-dai chosen for its perceived coolness is somehow shameful. (which is also bs)
      The thread is about kamon on dou, not the doudai itself.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Fudo-Shin View Post
        Not disrespectful, just being a tryhard. If your cool with that then go for it! After more than 8 years together, I could probably wear my other half's family kamon but I won't because it just doesn't feel right to wear something that denotes another family's name.

        As for the inverse racism, how far do you go? In this thread alone, you have called people bullshitters, liars and now some type of racist? FFS!
        People do lie and well, bullshit exists. Some in this thread. Possibly from me, as well. If I used the word "falsehood", are you going to say you'd find that any less offensive? (bs) So do racial issues. It's okay for Japanese to wear mon, even mon which are not "theirs", but:

        ....not the "Smiths"
        That's a racial statement. You can tell yourself it's not, but then you make me say you're bullshitting yourself. I'm not saying you're David Duke, man.

        The thread is about kamon on dou, not the doudai itself.
        I also mentioned the do-mune. I guess you missed that in your quest to score an internet point.
        Last edited by b8amack; 9th March 2012, 09:45 AM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by b8amack View Post
          There seem to be two separate objections going on, inasmuch as I understand jjcruiser's and fudo-shin's comments.

          1) That wearing kamon is somehow disrespectful without the "right". (Which is just bs) Which non-Japanese will (almost?) never have (also bs, and really a weird sort of inverse racism.)

          2) That anything on the do-dai chosen for its perceived coolness is somehow shameful. (which is also bs)
          I didn't say it was racist or disrespectful or cool/uncool and I don't care whether he's Japanese or not.

          I can have an opinion about something (e.g., warm weather is nicer than cold weather) and yet not care what someone does with that information (you want to move to Finland instead of Panama? Go for it.).

          I asked a loaded rhetorical question to the OP designed to get him to think through whether he thought it was a good idea, because although he asked for opinions, I don't think our opinions matter much compared with his and his sensei's. But now it's gotten so overblown with politics, race, and Truth that the issue isn't really about the OP's question anymore. Knock yourselves out. Please just stop ascribing to me strongly held convictions I don't hold.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by b8amack View Post
            That's a racial statement. You can tell yourself it's not, but then you make me say you're bullshitting yourself. I'm not saying you're David Duke, man.
            Okay, I take exception to that on so many levels but I can see how you are simply fishing for a reaction by making a ridiculous assertion like that, which you are not going to get.
            Originally posted by b8amack View Post
            I also mentioned the do-mune. I guess you missed that in your quest to score an internet point.
            By appealing to the minority?!? Now I see what drives your passion. I had you all wrong, welcome to the ignore list. Twist it as you feel you need to bater!

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by verissimus View Post
              Beg to differ. It's unfortunate the Nazis hijacked it, but it's very common among Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains. Almost every (Hindu) house in India will have a swastika painted somewhere.
              I agree. Reading ill intent into Eastern use of a symbol that got associated with evil in another part of the world is a bit sad. Nevertheless, I might take care on occasions where I'm around people who due to genuine personal reasons may "freak out". But I would expect others to be a bit more open minded about it.

              It's a bit like associating "Helter Skelter" with Charles Manson.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Fudo-Shin View Post
                After more than 8 years together, I could probably wear my other half's family kamon but I won't because it just doesn't feel right to wear something that denotes another family's name.
                If you tie the knot in Japan, unless requested otherwise your Japanese partner would be the head of the household in an international marriage. In a sense you are adopted into the Japanese family as far as the Japanese authorities are concerned (the man is still head as far as the neighbors are concerned... unless you got yourself an Obatalion... then you'll have their pity).

                If you tie the knot outside of Japan, you are still a dependent of the Japanese partner if you get registered on the koseki-tohon (family registry) for visa purposes (again, unless otherwise requested).

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                • #53
                  The Nazi swastika is/was inverted. Not the same as the Buddhist one. If people get offended by seeing a swastika, that's their ignorance. I wouldn't wear one, but I'm atheist.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Fudo-Shin View Post
                    Okay, I take exception to that on so many levels but I can see how you are simply fishing for a reaction by making a ridiculous assertion like that, which you are not going to get.
                    That's not an assertion. The idea that the "Smiths" (your words) can't wear a mon... that is racial. I'm not making an assertion. You don't like it, then don't say stupid shit like that.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by b8amack View Post
                      The Nazi swastika is/was inverted. Not the same as the Buddhist one. If people get offended by seeing a swastika, that's their ignorance. I wouldn't wear one, but I'm atheist.
                      And on the basis of this, if you ever run for public office in the US, your opponent will slander you as a Nazi-loving-Godless-heathen.

                      (isn't election season great?)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by dillon View Post
                        If you tie the knot in Japan, unless requested otherwise your Japanese partner would be the head of the household in an international marriage. In a sense you are adopted into the Japanese family as far as the Japanese authorities are concerned (the man is still head as far as the neighbors are concerned... unless you got yourself an Obatalion... then you'll have their pity).

                        If you tie the knot outside of Japan, you are still a dependent of the Japanese partner if you get registered on the koseki-tohon (family registry) for visa purposes (again, unless otherwise requested).
                        That's kinda the point I am making; when we are married, which coincidentally will be soon, I would then be able to be formally adopted into that family and recognized by the authorities as you say. Their kamon would then have relevance to me, but not so beforehand. Correct me if I'm wrong?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Fudo-Shin View Post
                          That's kinda the point I am making; when we are married, which coincidentally will be soon, I would then be able to be formally adopted into that family and recognized by the authorities as you say. Their kamon would then have relevance to me, but not so beforehand. Correct me if I'm wrong?
                          At the point of signing off the marriage certificate, yes you officially belong to a Japanese family and have a clear 100% bon-a-fide indisputable claim to using the partner's kamon (assuming the family even keeps track of it).

                          Before this, well then it's the up-in-the-air-there's-no-law-against-it-but-how-much-do-you-think-people-will-read-into-it that this thread has thrown up.

                          Personally, I tend to sit on the side of the fence that says unnecessary displays are unnecessary, but I wouldn't hound people who disagreed and prefer to splash kazari around. The world needs both kinds of people. The last impression I would want to give to non-kendoists is that we're a bunch of stick in the muds. But based on my personal experience here in Japan, I get to turn up at some practices I couldn't have dreamed of before arriving and it's by the good graces of the various sensei who have opened their doors to me... and I am very careful to not make them think I'm some show-off gaikokujin. I keep my head down, work hard and just hope I get in a keiko with the shihan each time I turn up. Maybe they wouldn't care about some kazari but I'm not going to take that chance.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Fudo-Shin View Post
                            That's kinda the point I am making; when we are married, which coincidentally will be soon, I would then be able to be formally adopted into that family and recognized by the authorities as you say. Their kamon would then have relevance to me, but not so beforehand. Correct me if I'm wrong?
                            The kamon authorities? Once again... no such beast.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I believe there's no such big deal with the kamon usage, it's a question of opinion as much as coloured do-dai. Of course you should do what you feel like, just making sure your sensei is ok with that.

                              The problemo of not being standard is that people may not like what they see, if you're the kind that doesen't really care, then great! You just have to understand that there will be downsides, but it's up to you to decide if it's better to play safe, or just go with what you like best because you don't give a sh*t.

                              In the end, I'd just be sure to not offend my sensei/senpai/dojo mates as it would be really bad.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by b8amack View Post
                                The "just" is the dismissive part. As though that's something wrong. Any sort of design on the do at all, kamon or sticker or fancy embroidery or expensive do-dai.... liking the look of it is usually going to be a part of the reason for having it. So is having an unadorned black do-mune/dai. And there's nothing wrong with that.
                                There's a part of me that agrees that a choice not to sport explicit decoration is itself a decorative choice. One of the earliest proponents of Post-Modernist architecture, Robert Venturi, wrote a defense of "gaudy" Las Vegas entitled Learning from Las Vegas at a time when orthodox Modernism dominated architecture schools (and would continue to for a while longer). Venturi pointed out that Modernism wasn't "free" of decoration as it claimed itself to be, but rather choose to adopt machine aesthetic. Compared to figurative decoration it may not look like decoration but it was itself an aesthetic choice.

                                This next part is a bit long winded and about architecture.

                                I used to work for a very well known flamboyant architecture practice, arguably the prima donna practice of today. Our work was either loved or hated intensely. People didn't seem to have any intermediary feelings about it because part of our design agenda was to be even more radical than what we were already doing. When I joined the office we were around 25 and in the 10 years I was there the staff exploded to over 400, which for an architecture practice is giant. In my early years the new hires would spent 6months to a year just making models and drawing up someone else's design (and usually burned out after this and leave). In doing so, we (those who stayed beyond burn-out) acquired the "in-house" aesthetic sensibilities before we were eventually got around to contributing designs. Despite our design sensibility being largely intuitive (to paraphrase b8amack, we just liked how it looked), we managed to produce work that was unified and identifiable with the practice (at that time usually to chorus of praise or jealous mumbling about it being unbuildable). With the popularity of the practice increasing, a lot of work started coming out from other practices that tried to emulate the qualities of our design. But they always looked like poor imitations as it takes many months of intense work to acquire an eye and a hand for drawing what we could draw.

                                So long story short, to break a rule effectively you need to know the rules. Otherwise it (with rare exceptions) contributes little to the wider discourse of the evolution of artistic endeavors. If one doesn't want to contribute then that's fine, but then one shouldn't have any illusions of grandeur.

                                Interpret that as you like. I would leave it to each individual whether to have a kamon with personal links or not. But I hope by presenting a lesson from another endeavor each of us can have a more informed understanding of the implications of our choice. Fortunately in kendo, that seems to be a largely a private matter (unlike the fire-tongued brutal world of architectural press).

                                BTW, until last month I used to have my previous London dojo kamon on my dou until it got too tatty. Then I took it off because it was too worn out and therefore potentially embarrassing to my former dojo. Mostly it went unnoticed. Most comments I got from people were about the fact that although the kanji on my zekken would be read "Hayashi" in Japanese, I have "LIN" (Sino/onyomi reading) written in romanji underneath. This usually gets a conversation going about where I'm from and actually broke a lot of ice. It's also funny when "Hayashi-senshu" got called out and my sensei had to correct the announcer.

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