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  • #16
    If sensei is only saying these things to you then perhaps
    it is time to re-evaluate your behaviours and attitudes.

    If he is like this with everyone....... then at least it is not personal.
    If it is solely you that is receiving this treatment - perhaps it is personal; then only you can solve this problem.

    Is there evidence that many people have joined but left shortly thereafter?
    [Other than the usual 'drop-outs' that are common to Kendo...]

    Are others in your dojo in the same frame of mind as you are?

    Is sensei always this way? - - or only when he is 'having a bad day'?

    Perhaps the most important question;
    Are you learning?
    or - - has your Kendo improved - -is it improving?

    If you are improving then perhaps it is simply a 'suck it up' and keep your verbals to yourself for 6 months [or longer] situation.

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    • #17
      Kendo rebel is borderline oxymoronic.

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      • #18
        Iron ore can only turn into steel by being forged.

        If your sensei is criticizing you it is probably because they see potential in you and want you to be better. Like a backhanded compliment?

        I think many kendo teachers do this so try not to take it personally. Don't get your ego involved. And good luck.

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        • #19
          i bet no one will take this crap from other things such as basketball or football (both american and non-american football). but why is it that when it's kendo or martial art, people will say it's a lesson to be taken and considered before saying good bye to the one who is calling others idiot?

          i'm just curious. i grew up in korea when i was much younger and it was normal for the teachers to call names to the kids, and beat them up on daily bases. if i had it my way, i would have taken a baseball bat to their head, but that was just not done. my parents were very vocal about such treatment of kids and my teachers basically ignored me, but still kicked my ass every day.

          when i was out of school in CONUS, i was with one of the better pipe band around this region, the director was a character (i would call him an asshole, but i guess it's genetic defect and not his choice in some ways..). i told him i didn't care for it and quit.

          everything in life is a choice. if you want to take shit and don't mind, stay. if you don't care for that kinda treatment, there are other things in life. in the end, we all die, it's a journey to that end and there is no reason to take shit from anyone.

          pete

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          • #20
            Could it be that you are misinterpreting the sensei/s actions and the true motivations behind those actions? Could you be misinterpreting the precise meaning of the sensei/s words and thus taking it the wrong way? Maybe there are social, cultural or language barriers present which are preventing you from gaining a true understanding of the sensei/s intentions.

            Much of human conflict is based on misunderstanding the true intentions and thoughts of our fellow humans beings. It would be best to approach your sensei/s with the above thoughts in mind and politely address the above mentioned issues in order to clear up any misunderstandings. Then maybe you shall gain a better understanding as to why your sensei/s smack your butt and call you an idiot.

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            • #21
              I think it depends how it is said and who says it and who to. Stern words can be good encouragement for some people, others need constant reassurance. Unless it is said in jest (eg you've just done something so spectacular silly that even you are laughing) then I believe that there is no need to insult someone who is trying their best. EVER! It is quite differnent from telling someone they can do better and that they need to try harder.

              From personnel experience, I know what it is like to be constantly insulted and people to be generally very rude to me (school, college, university, first job). And it isn't nice. Its called bullying. And a sensei should know better (even if cultural differences account for some of it).

              I also know from the point of view of a fencing coach and karate instructer that I wouldn't do it to the people I teach. I might make a joke with them and say it once (had one trip over their own feet, fall forward and break the foil blade). I joked he was an clumsy git and sorted out another foil for him. And because I joked, he smiled and didn't feel so bad about breaking the kit (accidents happen).

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              • #22
                There's also the option of asking the sensei what his/her intentions are. While I feel that these sorts of situations are rare, it's not like the middle ages where you get killed for asking the wrong question (in most cases anyways).

                A lot of times, the actions of someone are based on how they were raised. To use this example with Kendo, if someone was trained for years abusively, there's a chance that that person will do the same to his/her students. If that's the case, they are most likely trying to break you down so you come back stronger, but it's also necessary to know the intent behind it to make sure that is the case. I am not condoning that sort of action though cause, just because it's Japanese or old, doesn't mean that it's correct. Why else do we have all these advances in teaching methods after thousands of years of education (whether or not they are actually used is left for another thread).

                Oh yeah, and embrace your black-sheepiness as long as it doesn't mean you're always questioning people to annoyance or hurting anyone's feelings. I know I have.
                Last edited by Anime12478; 16th June 2009, 09:18 PM.

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                • #23
                  Tough teachers in Japan often verbally "abuse" their students in the sense of saying "baka" or "aho". Some western students might misinterpret this as meaning a tough teacher should also verbally abuse their students. However, in a Japanese contexts such words are not as personally insulting as calling someone an "idiot" in English would be. Idiomatically, it's more akin to saying "Move your ass, damn it!" rather than a simple, "Move faster!" The former, I believe, is just the kind of tough talk one finds in Western sports.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by nikozamo View Post
                    I open this thread because i want to know what you think about this. some senseis says you are idiot, quit kendo, and otre stuff, they hit everyone's butt and more.

                    1.- is this kind of teaching style correct?
                    4.- tolerate that kind of stuff from a sensei? (why? when? who? what?)

                    i will answer my own questions to explain a little more:

                    1.- is a wrong teaching style: non-sports kind of.
                    4.- i dont wanna tolerate that kind of stuff anymore, but still want to continue kendo. (new question: what to do?)

                    Yes... im a kendo rebel... the black sheep. i always say what is suppouse to dont say and that kind of stuff... and obiously dont care about what happens when i do it... btw im not angry... just curious.
                    Originally posted by Wesley Myers View Post
                    I'm reading between your lines.

                    You are obviously the person who is being called this (and obviously do not like it) yet you go on to state, "i always say what is suppouse to dont say and that kind of stuff... and obiously dont care about what happens when i do it... "

                    If you do not care what happens when you do that, why are you complaining that someone is calling you on this and telling you to quit, calling you an idiot and hitting you?!

                    So, obviously you do care - or this thread wouldn't be here.

                    Since you do care, the next thing is to understand if Sensei is doing this to just those who, "say what is suppouse to dont say and that kind of stuff..." or to every student?

                    I think we can figure out the answer pretty quickly. So, since you do not like being treated this way, you should stop and take time
                    I agree with Wesley.
                    If a student questions what is being taught by the Sensei, that is very disrespectful. Sensei is giving his(her) time and knowledge to have some "know-it-all" question what and why. As a beginner you probably will not know why things are done a specific way until much further down the road.
                    But hopefully some years from now the light will go on and "Aha!! that is why it was taught this way".
                    If the basics are not correct at the beginning you will develop ingrained wrong habits that will stop your progress at some point until you unlearn those bad habits and restart what you Sensei is attempting to teach you now.
                    Unless your Sensei is also a lawyer, they will probably not appreciate the debate and having to "prove" each technique to each new student.

                    Rein that ego and remember that you have Two ears, and only one mouth for a reason.

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                    • #25
                      I'm not sure how many of you have been involved with organized sports but coaches calling players idiots is not uncommon really, at least not when I was in school lo these many years ago. In tennis, football and basketball and even golf it was fairly common.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by bullet08 View Post
                        i bet no one will take this crap from other things such as basketball or football (both american and non-american football).
                        I think you have an unrealistic view of what goes on with sports coaches in general. My high school phys ed teacher was a mean-spirited asshole who nevertheless went on to coach the local junior football team to national championships and was universally praised in the local media.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill View Post
                          My high school phys ed teacher was a mean-spirited asshole who nevertheless went on to coach the local junior football team to national championships and was universally praised in the local media.
                          I can concur with that, our football coach was an ass of extraordinary means. We also went to the state championship. Everyone thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but if you weren't on his favorite list (it was very short) he was a serious butthead.
                          I think it goes with everything else, sometimes (most) your coaches, sensei, what have you are there because they care. If they didn't why else would they be there. Once in a while you get the bad apple, if that's the case there aren't too many options besides finding someone else.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill View Post
                            I think you have an unrealistic view of what goes on with sports coaches in general. My high school phys ed teacher was a mean-spirited asshole who nevertheless went on to coach the local junior football team to national championships and was universally praised in the local media.
                            that's very possible. i have only been in high school wrestling team, and did number of different martial arts.

                            i do things because i like them. if some one is just pain in the ass, i'll tell them to f*** off and move on. don't have time to waste on things that i don't care for.

                            pete

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                            • #29
                              well... aswer to some questions about...

                              1.- yes, im not the only one with this problem... actually a girl it's not going to keiko because of the current sensei.

                              2.- by now... the current sensei is doing classes in both dojos in santiago... so... in cant go anywhere.

                              3.- it will sound weird... but here in chile there just 2 jodan players... me and other guy. we are improving my jodan skills... but anyway... still happens what im saying.

                              4.- actually im taking a little time before i start training for my 3dan shinsa.

                              5.- the problems is almost all the time, not just in sensei's bad days.

                              6.- some persons in my dojo and in other dojos maybe will think like me, just they do not complain at all about this situation.

                              7.- about ''maybe you have potential in kendo''... i just dont know, actually a think a do a good job in team comtetitions... but in individuals... i just suck. i think in the future i will be a nice grade kenshi, i want to teach kendo and naginata, i just want to do kendo until i die.

                              8.- if some day i reach the sensei position in somewhere... obiously the kenshis will be well-treated.

                              9.- about been black sheep/kendo rebel... it's not about (just) my ego. just i say things to try to improve kendo in chile. obiously maybe im still a child (with beard and 22 years) and im doing it in the worst of the ways.

                              10.- by now im not using ''my'' dojo zekken... just a ''chile'' zekken... why? beacuse right now im not identified with my dojo... maybe we can say im go and practice in one place... after i go in the team of another dojo.. and so on.

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                              • #30
                                Basically you can stay or go..seems like your already half way out the door. Or maybe it is a third option, hang in there as long as you can, rank up and then start your own dojo.

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