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Switching Kamae during a match. Allowed?

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  • Switching Kamae during a match. Allowed?

    We can switch from chudan to jodan. Jodan to migi jodan. We can't switch from chudan to nito.

    Can we switch from gyaku nito to sei nito and visa versa? The fact that we have to switch hands with the shinai makes me think some shinpan wouldn't allow this during a match. I don't see a problem doing this during a yame though.

  • #2
    Yes, you can switch, I believe you can do whatever the hell you want other then switching to Nito...

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    • #3
      What an evil idea!

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      • #4
        I wanna see you do that ...(switch from sei to gyaku nito) without a yame in the middle there... I have visions of you throwing the shinai up in the air and then catching them in the other kamae...while avoiding your opponent.

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        • #5
          How interesting. I re-read the rules just now, and there's no consideration whatsoever. With that in mind, it ought to be allowed at any possible moment; assuming, of course, that you can manage to pull it off without exposing yourself to your opponent completely. "What's not prohibited is allowed", and all that.

          And really, I'm curious: Let's assume that a nitouka does switch hands to his/her shinai, and a shinpan finds that objectionable. What can s/he do? S/He can't call hansoku, seeing as there isn't anything in the hansoku regulations even remotely reminiscent of that. (...Unless your opponent or the shinpan are insulted by that switch. Just sayin'.) Call gougi? Even if all the shinpan are against it, again, there's nothing they can do. Apart, maybe, from politely asking the nitouka to not do that again, because... they'd find it harder to judge? Is that even a valid reason?

          For ittouka, it's quite legal to utilise a katate-kamae, and there's no problem if they switch hands in the middle of the match. I can't see why a nitouka shouldn't be allowed the same privilege. Plus, even if the shinpan are uncomfortable with it, what can they do?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DCPan View Post
            What an evil idea!
            I was in a shiai back in April (First shiai in 2 or 3 years) and I hadn't practiced in 6 months so I was not in kendo shape. The only way I could get through the 10 or so matches (individual and team) was to keep on switching. Gyaku one round, sei the next round etc. It worked. Won all the matches. I need to work on flipping the shinai in the air and catching it behind my back when I switch during a match. I should get an ippon in the artistic department for that.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Anorymous View Post
              Plus, even if the shinpan are uncomfortable with it, what can they do?
              i suppose they could wind up making a decision that might be contrary to the rules... or the 'spirit' of the rules..
              or they could appeal to shimpan-cho and he winds up doing the same thing...

              I'm understanding you to suggest that they might just fall back on "well, we don't know, so we'll allow it"..
              when they (or shimpan-cho) might decide it ought to be an "unsportsmanlike hansoku"... regardless of the 'gray area' or even if it's simply not addressed in the rules.

              everybody but aite might want to allow the nito player to switch hands...
              or maybe nobody but the nito player wants to allow him to switch hands...

              who knows? Personally, I don't really care...
              I like moocow's argument (the logic of it anyway)... if you can switch regularly between migi and hidari jodan without penalty...(which I think is a better comparison than chudan-to-jodan-and-vice-versa)... I don't see why a nito player shouldn't be allowed to do it (although for some reason, I'm also thinking "only after 'yame'")...
              Last edited by tango; 29th June 2012, 12:09 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tango View Post
                I like moocow's argument (the logic of it anyway)... if you can switch regularly between migi and hidari jodan without penalty...(which I think is a better comparison than chudan-to-jodan-and-vice-versa)... I don't see why a nito player shouldn't be allowed to do it (although for some reason, I'm also thinking "only after 'yame'")...
                If you can pull off the mechanics of switching between sei-nito and gyaku-nito in the middle of a match, I don't see why not. And definitely after yame. Check out this video of Toda sensei vs. Kai sensei from 1999. Kai sensei switches from chudan (grip) to gyaku-jodan a number of times during the match.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqjbF...2&feature=plcp

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by moocow65 View Post
                  I was in a shiai back in April (First shiai in 2 or 3 years) and I hadn't practiced in 6 months so I was not in kendo shape. The only way I could get through the 10 or so matches (individual and team) was to keep on switching. Gyaku one round, sei the next round etc. It worked. Won all the matches. I need to work on flipping the shinai in the air and catching it behind my back when I switch during a match. I should get an ippon in the artistic department for that.
                  LOL, I did the something similar back in 97 or 98 in Taiwan during a round robin tourament. A sensei saw that I had the flu and advised me that I switch between chudan and jodan...end result was winning a 10 speed bike I think it was 7 matches though...so not quite as many as what you had

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                  • #10
                    I'm betting it wouldn't be allowed mid-match.

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                    • #11
                      i have seen it done twice in a shia,
                      the nito player after yame was called switched hands as he was walking back to the line.
                      no one noticed into till he went up to jogei tachi.
                      the other time it was done in tsubazeriai

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ace View Post
                        the other time it was done in tsubazeriai
                        Wow...you'd think that'd be invitation to have one's shinai disarmed....

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ace View Post
                          i have seen it done twice in a shia,
                          the nito player after yame was called switched hands as he was walking back to the line.
                          no one noticed into till he went up to jogei tachi.
                          the other time it was done in tsubazeriai
                          Was it the same guy both times?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Halcyon View Post
                            If you can pull off the mechanics of switching between sei-nito and gyaku-nito in the middle of a match, I don't see why not. And definitely after yame. Check out this video of Toda sensei vs. Kai sensei from 1999. Kai sensei switches from chudan (grip) to gyaku-jodan a number of times during the match.

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqjbF...2&feature=plcp
                            Love it... Nice shot a 4:16

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                            • #15
                              yeah same guy
                              different match

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