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  • #16
    Originally posted by dillon View Post
    From my rather humble experience ai-uchi-men that results in both sides meeting in such a way that both have their arms pushed up by the other's arm only happens when both sides have in mind to practice this way (e.g. in an ai-kakarigeiko situation where the senior member decides it's time to do it like this).
    I see what you're saying. Frankly, this arms-up seems to happen a lot in shiai, aggressive jigeiko, and not necessarily the more careful "conversational kendo" you're describing. Honestly, I think arms-up happens quite naturally in an ai-men situation. I also feel it's acceptable, as long as the lower body conforms to good taiatari.

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    • #17
      Isn't the idea of ai uchi men is to both aite to go stright into each other and hit men following all shouchuusen "正中線"?

      I've seen many people (and probably I used to do that before), that insted of going stright with a shoumen uchi, or with ippon uchi men, they tend to step a bit to their right side, so they head is out of the trajectory of aite's shinai. So instead of hiting exatctly on the datotsu bui of the aite, they hit between the center and aite's left side of his/her men.

      Other way that I've seen is one of the aite's stepping sideways (but going frontwards) and they keep they arms at the center of the other aite, so his body is out the aite's men, and they get to hit on the aite's men... I just thing that both ways are good for shiai or even, sometimes, keiko, but if the practice is for men uchi, both aite's should follow stright without steping out before hiting their men.

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      • #18
        I have no answer but some questions:
        Isn't the ideal Kendo cut one where you seme, create opening, cut, follow through and zanshi straight down the middle?
        Is it truly sutemi if you are worried about your kote getting picked off on the way in and going to the side to score a point?
        Could you not do a straight centered shomen, like above, with a raw beginner? Should you not strive to do the same with every aite?
        Are you polishing your (Ken)do or trying to score points?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by alfanator View Post
          I have no answer but some questions:
          Isn't the ideal Kendo cut one where you seme, create opening, cut, follow through and zanshi straight down the middle?
          Is it truly sutemi if you are worried about your kote getting picked off on the way in and going to the side to score a point?
          Could you not do a straight centered shomen, like above, with a raw beginner? Should you not strive to do the same with every aite?
          Are you polishing your (Ken)do or trying to score points?
          The short answer is, Sutemi is an attitude, not the strategy. Carrying your logic to the extreme, why worry about controlling the center at all? Is worrying about walking into the opponent's chudan while striking men sutemi?

          Sutemi is the attitude of how to totally commit to your strategy. Otherwise, it's kamikaze, not sutemi.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by alfanator View Post
            I have no answer but some questions:
            Isn't the ideal Kendo cut one where you seme, create opening, cut, follow through and zanshi straight down the middle?

            Yes, you should always fumikomi towards the target and then proceed to pass to the right. You're taught to do it as a beginner and 8dans do it this way.

            Is it truly sutemi if you are worried about your kote getting picked off on the way in and going to the side to score a point?

            Nope.

            Could you not do a straight centered shomen, like above, with a raw beginner? Should you not strive to do the same with every aite?

            Yes.

            I'd like to expand a little on the last couple pieces I've read on kenshi 24/7, "Hyoshi" and "The Overall Construction of Modern Kendo". If you haven't already, you should read it. Imo, I think the study of cutting hyoshi is fast becoming a thing of the past. I also find it ironic reading the comments people make about kendo not becoming an Olympic sport (which I agree), however, watching the past WKC, that's what it seems like to me. Kendo today is becoming something else, defensive and bendy seems to be the norm. The definition of yuko datotsu has changed.

            The concept of sutemi, seme, maai and tame, I just don't see it too often anymore, only bits and pieces of it. What I see are people swinging the shinai around. The concept of one cut, one kill...you just don't see in shiai.

            But I digress...the first element of yuko datotsu is posture, in kendo today, there seems to be 2 kinds, shiai posture and shinsa posture. The attitude, the mindset are different and it shouldn't be. IMHO, the reason for this is how one trains developing a solid foundation for the basics. This seems to be a grey area for a lot of people.

            In my opinion...the difference between a kendoka who swings the shinai using the whole body in unison and a kendoka who swings the shinai using the hands and feet is this...the kendoka that executes a strike using the hands and feet tend to aim at a target where as a kendoka with good mechanics can hit a target with his eyes closed. I'm not referring to Zatoichi, but muscle memory, executing strikes with consistency. You can't execute a clean strike with proper yuko datotsu if your posture is bad, that's a fact.

            I think there is a misconception today that *correct* kendo means slow and robotic. This is definitely not the case. For the young guns out there, waza could be executed quickly and faster than the guy who executes bendy strikes. You just need the discipline to do it.

            To repeat...in order for one to learn how to execute various strikes/waza, one needs to learn how swing the shinai using the whole body in unison for consistency. Without a consistent swing, you'll have a hard time learning how to execute various waza which will limit your understanding of seme, maai, tame and timing.

            The op said something about striking without being picked off, the truth is...you can be countered no matter what you do, even hiki waza. For example, you can counter a hiki men with kaeshi doh or counter a hiki doh with backward/diagonal kote. Anything is possible if you understand waza.

            Just my 2 cents, Gotta go.

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