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  • Zazen

    Hello, I'm a fairly recent member of these forums (just joined two days ago) and in that two days I've done quite a bit of reading, and right now two words are sticking in my mind: Zazen and mushin. (note that I've yet to start actually practicing Kendo, need to get a job and my license first). Zazen sounds like it would be a benficial practice even independent of Kendo, and I was wondering where I could find some info on it or something that talks about how to do it. As for mushin...well I think its like the thing people like Musashi talk about where there is sword/no-sword and mind/no-mind, right?

    Despite not meditating and not yet being a kendoka, I do much contemplating on these things and it would seem that its basically training really hard so that being in a kendo match (or whatever you're practicing) is like second-nature, and just flowing with the situation and reacting perfectly to circumstances as if you've been doing it since you were born (like breathing, for example). I believe Musashi compares it to water, flowing to fit the form of its container and fill open spaces and that sort of thing. Just asking for an opinion on my thoughts, especially since I could be absolutely wrong about everything I've said here since I've never actually done any of it. And as stated earlier, any info on zazen would be great. I'd also like to say people on here have been really nice to me, answering my questions and stuff. *bow*

  • #2
    Originally posted by Yuudai
    Hello, I'm a fairly recent member of these forums (just joined two days ago) and in that two days I've done quite a bit of reading, and right now two words are sticking in my mind: Zazen and mushin. (note that I've yet to start actually practicing Kendo, need to get a job and my license first). Zazen sounds like it would be a benficial practice even independent of Kendo, and I was wondering where I could find some info on it or something that talks about how to do it. As for mushin...well I think its like the thing people like Musashi talk about where there is sword/no-sword and mind/no-mind, right?

    [SNIP]
    Like Kendo, Zazen needs an instructor.

    PM for specifics on self-education.

    Actually the no-sword business is part of the Yagyu family records and their correspondence with the Zen priest Takuan Soto.

    Comment


    • #3
      Self-education in zazen

      OK, thanks for the info. I tried to PM you about self-education but it wouldn't let me, for whatever reason.

      Comment


      • #4
        some info

        zazen basics: http://www.ebslr.org/zazen.htm http://tekishin.org/zazen/zazeneg.htmlinkpage: http://www.well.com/www/btanaka/dw.html
        international zendo listing: http://iriz.hanazono.ac.jp/zen_cente...ry_list_e.html

        Kendo and Zen are practices independent of each other, although they have certain similarities, and both require a teacher to do seriously.

        As to mushin, it's more a name for an experience than a concept, and as a concept, it can be discussed to death (see "no-mind" thread). I'd suggest doing kendo and/or zazen for a while before worrying about it too much.

        Comment


        • #5
          Short Lists of my Recommendations

          Originally posted by Yuudai
          OK, thanks for the info. I tried to PM you about self-education but it wouldn't let me, for whatever reason.
          Zen & Zazen
          • Enomiya-Lassalle, Hugo M., 1990. The Practice of Zen Meditation, Thorsons Publishing Group, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire, England. 123 pp.
          • Omori, Sogen, 2001. An Introduction to Zen Training: A Translation of Sanzen Nyumon, Tuttle, Boston, MA. 254 pp.
          • Sekida, Katsuki, 1985. Zen Training: Methods and Philosophy, Weatherhill, New York. 258 pp.


          Zen in JSA
          • Deshimaru, Taisen, 1982. The Zen Way to the Martial Arts, translated by Ms. Nancy Amphoux. E. P. Dutton, New York. 120 pp.
          • Sato, Hiroaki (tr.), 1985. The Sword & the Mind, The Overlook Press, Woodstock, NY. 133 pp.
          • Sayama, Mike K., 1986. Samadhi: Self Development in Zen, Swordsmanship, and Psychotherapy, SUNY Press, Albany. 160 pp.
          • Stevens, John, 1989. The Sword of No-Sword: Life of the Master Warrior Tesshu, Shambhala, Boston. 169 pp.
          • Takuan, Soho, 1986. The Unfettered Mind: Writings of the Zen Master to the Sword Master (William Scott Wilson, tr.), Kodansha Intl., Tokyo. 101 pp.

          HTH.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks

            Thanks a lot for that info, both of you. The sites are helpful, I'll probably get up early tomorrow morning and try that. As for the books, I'll go to barnes and noble if i get the chance this weekend and see if they're there.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Yuudai
              Thanks a lot for that info, both of you. The sites are helpful, I'll probably get up early tomorrow morning and try that. As for the books, I'll go to barnes and noble if i get the chance this weekend and see if they're there.
              You're welcome. Good luck.

              By the way, since you mentioned it in a another thread, you might find the book by Enomiya-Lassalle that R.A. suggested, or any of his or David Steindl-Rast's books to be of special interest, since both authors were Catholic monks (Jesuit and Benedictine) who received permission to practice Zen under Japanese teachers and later became teachers themselves.

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              • #8
                Any one know some where to learn this in so cail? thanks

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by not-I
                  You're welcome. Good luck.

                  By the way, since you mentioned it in a another thread, you might find the book by Enomiya-Lassalle that R.A. suggested, or any of his or David Steindl-Rast's books to be of special interest, since both authors were Catholic monks (Jesuit and Benedictine) who received permission to practice Zen under Japanese teachers and later became teachers themselves.
                  Wow that sounds really interesting. Thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Zen and western religion

                    Originally posted by not-I
                    You're welcome. Good luck.

                    By the way, since you mentioned it in a another thread, you might find the book by Enomiya-Lassalle that R.A. suggested, or any of his or David Steindl-Rast's books to be of special interest, since both authors were Catholic monks (Jesuit and Benedictine) who received permission to practice Zen under Japanese teachers and later became teachers themselves.
                    In the early 1990's, my wife and I belong to a Sang-ha lead by a Roman Catholic priest at a R.C. Retreat House in southern NH. He was a local leader in the regional Buddhist-Christian dialogue movement.

                    The writings of Enomiya-Lassalle and Steindl-Rast bring home the points that
                    • Zen is not an exotically foreign concept that is unapproachable by Westerners,
                    • Zen is not incompatible with Western religions, and
                    • Zen can be explained in Western terms to Westerners.

                    It is interesting to note that both authors are monks and not priests. The late Joseph Campbell had some interesting observations on the differences between priests and monks of all persuations. Priests are administrators concerned with externals, and monks are functionaries concerned with the internal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lunchboxiswrong
                      Any one know some where to learn this in so cail? thanks
                      http://iriz.hanazono.ac.jp/zen_cente...htm#CALIFORNIA

                      Cali has lots on offer. If you want to know more about a particular lineage (Soto, Rinzai, Korean, Vietnamese, etc.), you're welcome to ask back here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by R A Sosnowski
                        The writings of Enomiya-Lassalle and Steindl-Rast bring home the points that
                        • Zen is not an exotically foreign concept that is unapproachable by Westerners,
                        • Zen is not incompatible with Western religions, and
                        • Zen can be explained in Western terms to Westerners.
                        I'm not a Christian myself many years ago, but i fully agree that Zen is universal, and not limited to a particular religious confession or denomination. Much work and dialogue has taken place in this regard and it is interesting to note, as Joseph Campbell once did, that the core "mystic" traditions of every world religion (Advaita Vendata, Ch'an/Zen, Kabbala, Meister Eckehart & other Christian mystics, Sufism) tend to have more similarities than differences.

                        Many years ago, my Zen Buddhist teacher spent some time at fellow Austrian David Steindl-Rast's retreat center, where he met Joshu Sasaki Roshi and became a Zen monk, and later, an "acting Roshi." Sasaki Roshi, btw, is almost 100 years old, still travels, and promotes annual inter-religious dialogues.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          OK thanks alot, I found one around where my girlfriend lives so its not that far for me. thanks again

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