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  • Kendo/kenjutsu dojo in Brazil

    Hi,


    I'm looking for a kendo/kenjutsu dojo to train here in Brazil - So Paulo.

    Can anyone point a good one?

    I found this one www.niten.org.br looks like its the best dojo around here and their sensei is a 7th dan, official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu and Suiyo Ryu and teach kenjutsu, iaijutsu, jojutsu, naginata, jitte e kusarigama.

    Anyone can confirm this?

    Thanks


    Vinicius

  • #2
    There was a thread on this and the consensus was that it was not good. Also on the thread there is a link to a thread on e-budo where the instituto niten goonies claimed Hyaku was not real and then withdrew from the forum without providing the information asked for.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't know...

      It can't be a bad dojo as sensei Kishikawa is always been published in magazines and newspapers, he's a reference here in kendo and kenjutsu.

      If he's a not a good sensei how he can be a official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu and Suiyo Ryu in Brazil?

      Comment


      • #4
        Here is the thread. It contains the link to the e-budo thread. There it is established that they are not official representatives of the Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.

        Comment


        • #5
          I just noticed that I didn't give you any other dojos, sorry. Here is one thread

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for dojos info.

            I just found the thread about dojos in sao paulo just after i post this new thread. Maybe i should be more carefull next time i start a new thread.

            The post about be a representative is old 2002 and in the site www.niten.org.br they still presents as official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu, so maybe they really are? Besides somewhere they posted that Niten Ichi Ryu senseis are comming next year.

            Is there a way to know if they are official representants today?


            Regards

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sen2000
              The post about be a representative is old 2002 and in the site www.niten.org.br they still presents as official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu, so maybe they really are? Besides somewhere they posted that Niten Ichi Ryu senseis are comming next year.
              I doubt it. It would take more than two years to get an menkyo-kaiden. specially with a background like this.

              Is there a way to know if they are official representants today?
              Considering they said they would show their credentials but never did it I think not.

              I'm hoping Hyaku (
              Colin George William Hyakutake-Watkin :wink ) will be able to give more information. (sorry about the font size. It changed and I can't change it back)

              Comment


              • #8
                A 7th dan kendo sensei can lie about this?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sen2000
                  Hi,


                  I'm looking for a kendo/kenjutsu dojo to train here in Brazil - So Paulo.

                  Can anyone point a good one?

                  I found this one www.niten.org.br looks like its the best dojo around here and their sensei is a 7th dan, official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu and Suiyo Ryu and teach kenjutsu, iaijutsu, jojutsu, naginata, jitte e kusarigama.

                  Anyone can confirm this?

                  Thanks


                  Vinicius
                  Conatct the Brazil Kendo Federation for dojo locations.
                  http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Sideline/7756/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I found this, posted by Niten Institute

                    here

                    Plainly it says that Mr Colin is not a sensei but a low graduate student and has no authority inside Niten Ichi Ryu and he has a conturbated personality and desire to expose in public.

                    It says too, that sensei Kishikawa is a direct student of 10th Soke, Imai Massayuke sensei, and 11th Soke, Kiyonaga sensei. Sensei Kishikawa has the authorization to teach and represent Niten Ichi Ryu over all South America.

                    Something about Mr Colin asking formal excuses and about false afirmations too.

                    It says too, in 2005 the masters of Niten Ichi Ryu will come to Niten Institute. It seems like the masters Kaminoda and Baba has came to Brazil in 2002 and 2003.




                    Personaly, i'm confused!



                    Message in portuguese below

                    --------------------------------------
                    Recebi sua dvida a sobre um link no site e-budo, onde uma pessoa que se entitula como sensei do Niten Ichi ryu faz afirmaes negativas a respeito do Sensei Jorge Kishikawa.
                    A pessoa em questo um ingls que vive no Japo chamado Colin. Ao contrrio do que faz parecer em suas mensagens, apenas um aluno pouco graduado do estilo, que tem uma profunda obsesso em ser o nico ocidental a estudar este estilo. Esta pessoa no Sensei, e no tem palavra dentro do Niten Ichi Ryu. Sua personalidade conturbada e desejo de se expor ao pblico como algo que no j o colocaram em problemas diversas vezes.

                    O Sensei Jorge Kishikawa aluno direto do 10 Soke do estilo, Imai Massayuke Sensei, e tambm do 11 Soke, Kiyonaga Sensei. O Sensei tem autorizao destes Mestres para ensinar e representar o estilo em toda a amrica do sul.

                    Em maio de 2002, por ocasio da visita do Sensei Jorge Kishikawa ao Japo, O sr. Colin teve que pedir formalmente desculpas na frente do Soke e dos outros senseis do estilo pelas mentiras que ele espalhou na internet. Sua atitude ao pedir desculpas no foi sincera, como tem mostrado atravs das afirmaes falsas que continua fazendo.

                    Fatos como este fazem com que os Mestres japoneses reprovem o uso de fruns e blogs para discutir assuntos do Budo. A Internet usada como uma forma de enganar e caluniar praticantes srios da espada.

                    Em 2005 est prevista a vinda dos Mestres do Niten Ichi Ryu ao Instituto Niten, onde os alunos do Niten. Somente um Sensei legtimo como o nosso poderia trazer mestres de tais magnitude ao nosso pas, como j foi feito tambm em 2002 e 2003, por ocasio da vinda dos Mestres Kaminoda e Baba.

                    Caso tenha mais alguma dvida, no hesite em nos contactar.

                    Atenciosamente
                    Sidharta Rezende
                    -----------------------------------------------------

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well it looks like I will have to post to briefly defend my position and make a few facts clear to bring things up to date. Although I would rather say nothing about the ryu's politics I would not wish that my credibility be questioned by not commenting and would like to clear up any confusion.

                      Well it must have been a ghost of me that represents the ryu in Canada with Soke and the same ghost that's going to France in a few weeks. Best tell the French senators and the mayor to call a priest for an exorcism

                      There was an inaugaration last year. http://www.hyoho.com/inuag.html

                      If people read this and look at the pictures the 11th Soke's name is different! This is the gentleman that has been taught and trained to be the successor. That rather large two meter stone at the foot of Kokura Jo says Iwami Toshio Genshin along with photographs.

                      A quick check with Nippon Budokan and the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai will confirm matters too. Mr Kiyonaga left some time ago for reasons I would not wish to go into to save him embarrasment. Now if Mr Kishikawa is a direct student of Imai soke why is Kiyonaga mentioned? Seems he is not up with the present situation.

                      We do not use the term Sensei in Hyoho Niten Ichiryu. We pledge allegiance to the 10th Soke still very much in control and his successor.
                      We do however call each other "Sensei" as a lot of the members are teachers of other other Budo within their own right.

                      Lastly and most important if a "few hours" practice qualifies one to represent the whole of South America that's quite a feat. All he needs now is the join the World Soke Council to make things complete. Either his students are saying things he is not aware of or he got hit on the head a few too many times at Kendo?

                      Imai Soke has however stated that has no control over what people do in their own countrys. So simply if Mr Kishikawa says he is representative of South America he gave the title to "himself".

                      Most of all we try and maintain and uphold a tradition in the ryu. All this silly talk does far from conform with what Musashi stood for.

                      Last of all, Sen thank you for translating what is being said behind our backs. Rest assured I will tell soke tomorrow. Is there a forum I can log on to and read anything else on this matter. I am quite anxious to respond in person.

                      On a lighter note Yagu gave a blank certificate to the Lord Hosokawa Tadatoshi. This he said indicates "with a blank sheet of paper the mind of the martial artist is transmitted".

                      In Japan or for that matter in any other country the proof is in the practice.
                      Most old master didn't give certificates anyway. The couldnt read or write!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, first i want to apologize Mr Colin for my previous message, now its clear to me that something is going wrong here in Brazil about kendo/kenjutsu.

                        I though the Niten Institute was the best dojo around here because Niten is everywhere in Brazil and all points to then, also it's a surprise to me that brazilian kendo federation has a hp at geocities (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Sideline/7756/) but after a search at http://registro.br/ I've found that cbk.org.br belongs to Kishikawa's Instituto Niten. A bit more little search and you discover that www.kendo.org.br points to niten.org.br as the only dojo to train kendo and www.kendoonline.com.br as a kendo suplier, guess who is the owner of the last?

                        Probably Kishikawa has the monopoly about kendo in Brazil.

                        Searching for brazilian kendo foruns I've found this one http://members.lycos.co.uk/kendofloripa/ where Niten Institute is considered a bad dojo, just a money maker dojo, and Kishikawa a mercenary. I can guess why, but now when they have something to say at the forum about Niten Institute and Kishikawa they say only "you know whatdojo i mean" and "you know who" or simply "JK".

                        Seems that there's a strugle betwen Brazilian Kendo Federation and Niten Institute?

                        My oppinion is, in this war the winner is Kishikawa's Niten Institute! Why? Because he has all the media attention today, and he is the reference in kendo and kenjutsu here in Brazil. For brazilian journalists there's only one kendo dojo, Niten Institute.

                        He say, through his students, that Mr Colin has "desire to expose in public". But now we can see that it's Kishikawa himself that has a desire to expose in public.

                        My final oppinion is. Niten Institute is a business not a kendo/kenjutsu dojo. Also a lot of students seems to be anime and manga fans so thats why he gave himself the title "official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu and Suiyo Ryu".

                        Now, I should look here http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Sideline/7756/ at brazilian kendo federation if i want to train kendo.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good research, Vinicius. I'm sorry to hear that's the situation. But doesn't Brazil have a large Japanese population, many of whom do not associate with Kishikawa? It doesn't help that he is a, what, 7th dan? Is he a very good kendoist?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't know what the japanese population in Brazil thinks about Kishikawa but if he has a strugle with Brazilian Kendo Federation, it may be possible that some japanese kendo sensei do not agree with Kishikawa?

                            Here says that he is 10 times brazilian kendo champion and 3rd place in Tokyo world championship. 80 consectutives victories in brazilian championships.

                            So he's probably a good kendoist.

                            But he should be less arrogant and pay more respect to a member of a ryu he claim to represent, in this case the Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sen2000
                              He say, through his students, that Mr Colin has "desire to expose in public". But now we can see that it's Kishikawa himself that has a desire to expose in public.
                              Well he is right in a way. I really do wish to try and promote the Hyoho Niten Ichiryu for the benefit of the ryu and people all over the world that want a chance to practice it. I don't see anything bad in that. Its certainly is not for my own gain. Also the problem is the rest of the people only speak Japanese so they push me into the position of a madoguchi (window).

                              Remember we don't actualy have a rank system.

                              But I do have plenty of ranks in other arts and would have to say that high ranks are "not" a sign a some kind of superior philosophy, concept or improved way of life that automatically comes with rank. I know lots of rather stupid go getting, arrogant people in high positions. If anything my move towards koryu was to get away from that. Of course they are here too. It's really a no win situation. You deal with them or "go find a cave".

                              Comment

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