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  • signature translation?

    hey all, i am new to the sword world and have been browsing the net when i came across this sight so i thought i would give it a try.
    i recently came across two swords that seem to have a fair age to them, i am told around 100-150 years but nothing confirmed.
    so here i am. i know probably the least amount about swords than anyone you can think of lol so i am asking for help.
    can anyone translate these pic's for me or tell me what style it is?, there is 4 pic's of the signatures, (two for each sword)
    first sword:

    and:


    second sword:

    and:


    and i also have another question... just above the Tsuba on both of the swords are some number's that bave been stamped into them. does anyone know what these numbers mean?


    anyways i am only just starting to get into them so please don't flame me for my incompetance :-(
    any help on any of my questions would be greatly apreciated or even advice on where to go for help.
    here are some other pic's for those interested.



  • #2
    I don't know if anyone here has the knowledge to help you directly but maybe you could try contacting the token society.

    The UK one is here http://www.to-ken.com/

    Alternatively...

    JAPANESE SWORD SOCIETY OF AUSTRALIA, INC. - Regular meetings at the Concordia Club Ltd., 231 Stanmore Rd. Standmore NSW. Newsletter published, Alan Morton, President P.O. BoxA316, Sydney South NSW 1235.

    But I don't know if those details are correct.

    Good Luck

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Dennis

      I don't know much about swords either, but a small photo tip, find the little flower icon on your camera and select it. This is the macro focus function, and lets you focus at very close range, say less than 10cm. You won't be able to use Flash at that range though, so take the pics during the day using daylight.

      As for advice, you could try Sword Forum.

      HTH

      b

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't think the first is written in Japanese. To me it looks like a number: 11-5-00. Possibly a date.

        The second is Yamamoto Kazuki (山本一木), which looks like a name. However 'Kazuki' is not usually spelled like that.

        I don't know what the numbers on the habaki mean.

        Finally, I'm very sorry to say this, and I may be wrong as I am no expert on swords, but they look fake to me. However I would recommend asking at http://forums.swordforum.com/ as there are many very knowledgeable people there.

        Comment


        • #5
          The pictures are very blurry.

          The second set of pics has the name Yamamoto Kazuki, though 木 seems an odd choice for a name.

          Ah Oroshi beat me to it! I agree though, they look like fakes to me.

          Hard typing with a baby on your knee!

          Comment


          • #6
            hey guys that was quick for the replies. i will check out swordforum and also thank you for the advice on the camera. lol it seems i am a beginer at using one of those aswell. as for the signatures part they were actually taken on my camera phone as i had forgotten my camera when i was getting the handles taken off the swords.
            as for them being fake. how are you able to tell?, is it the detail in the craftmanship of the design?, or the numbers on the habaki?
            as for those numbers someone told me that they are Seisure numbers from the war? i have no proof of this but aparently a large amount of weapons were seized and the people who had them started to umm...whats the word i am looking for...book them in to stock?...i dunno lol but yea i am only goin on what i am told, but thanks all the same everyone!.

            Comment


            • #7
              For me it's a combination of factors:

              - The fittings (koshirae) look poorly made and are in a strange style
              - The shape of the blade looks wrong
              - The signature on the tang doesn't look like correct Japanese
              - The wrapping on the handle looks poor quality

              This is just my layman's opinion, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. Someone at swordforum should be able to give you a definitive answer.

              Comment


              • #8
                http://www.nihontokanjipages.com/fak...se_swords.html

                This is an excellent guide to spotting fake swords, complete with comparison photos.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Add to that: hada looks bad (just my lay opinion).

                  You can check out nihonto fakes for guidance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    alrighty, there is a good chance that these are fake now that i look at some of the real ones on "Nihonto fakes" but one thing i have noticed is both blades are real. they have the real folded steel marks in them not the fake ones. and the tip's of the blade curves correctly, i will take better pic's tomorrow as it is night time at this time, but where the signatures are you can see the folded steel marks where as the fakes the marks don't go around the signatures i am told. also the rust around the signatures look that of the real ones. it could be possible that just the "jewelry" is fake and the blade its self is real?, anyways i will post better/clearer pic's tomorrow. :-)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Could be. I know what you meant by 'jewellery', but I think in English it is usually referred to as 'furniture'. Truly.

                      b

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        alrighty just an update while i am waiting for Validation at Swordforums lol. i have taken some more visible pic's of these swords in more detail so here they are.
                        1st sword.










                        well... that is the first sword lol, i know there is alot of pic's but hey, im snap happy :-D
                        second Sword:










                        ok a couple questions again,
                        Can anyone confirm my theory about these swords being Seized and marked with those number's on the habaki?
                        and take a look at this Pitchure. i was also informed that these swords were infact polished with a "machine" rather than hand done.

                        it has taken away the detail of the blade and pretty much damaged it past repair. (that was a Quote by the way i am still learning)
                        another thing that points out that they are real blades i am told are these markings on the Tang is it aparently they are the markings of folded steel?

                        and

                        also the rust to me looks Genuine but hey, like i keep saying, i am still only just starting out.

                        Comment

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