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  • sweep the leg

    My sensei mentioned the other day in class that in Kendo it used to be permissible to use leg sweeps but that it was stopped eventually due to too many injuries.

    I've never seen a reference to this in any of the books I have. Does anyone know when this change was made? It makes me wonder what else has been changed in the past 100 years (besides the mune-tsuki target, which is the only other one I can think of off-hand).

    No, I have no interest in seeing it return or not return. Just curious.

    (Btw, an old thread on here referred to a video showing some leg sweeps (so it had to be post 1940 or so I would imagine) but the KW thread never answered the question -- it devolved into a debate about when WWII ended and what constitutes "pre-war Kendo").

    Any suggested references for a thorough history of 20th Century Kendo (in English)?

  • #2
    no reference im afraid, just know that it is common knowledge this is a move of pre-war kendo ... and was probably outlawed until the reintroduction. sorry if that was unhelpful!

    I heard the Haga dojo still do it though ... someone will have to confirm on that though.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bear of Doom View Post
      no reference im afraid, just know that it is common knowledge this is a move of pre-war kendo ... and was probably outlawed until the reintroduction. sorry if that was unhelpful!

      I heard the Haga dojo still do it though ... someone will have to confirm on that though.
      I have a feeling that a couple of years back someone posted a video from a 1950's program that did a feature on kendo. The demonstration definitly included leg sweeps.

      According to Hiden magazine, the Haga dojo used to permit leg sweeps and throws, and recendly revived some of these for a competition. I'll have to recheck.

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      • #4
        look up the black ships of kendo in the articles section, there are several articles there which should help answer your question.

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        • #5
          I also had a sensei tell me that pulling off the men was acceptable.

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          • #6
            Some people still play this way
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs9G7P0MA2A

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ratdeau View Post
              Some people still play this way
              Indeed they do:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5XXDvDtkKU

              Check out the upper shiai-jo at 2:03.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ratdeau View Post
                Some people still play this way
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs9G7P0MA2A

                That looks like what usually happens when people try to recreate some sort of pre-war or "real sword" kendo. They start coming up with waza that take advantage of a method of striking and following through that didn't develop until after ashigarami, kumiuchi, and the like were prohibited.

                In that video, the ashigarami from tsubazeriai is the only technique even close to what I've read described in pre-war kendo books. Of course the same books describe tsubazeriai as something to be avoided and escaped as quickly as you can if you do find yourself in it, but none of these attempts at reconstruction ever do that part.

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                • #9
                  this was an old thread discussing the topic

                  about the OP video, I like how the left guy disarmed the other kenshi and followed with tsuki at 3:36...simply brilliant
                  Last edited by mugen no junin; 25th April 2009, 06:08 PM.

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                  • #10
                    They use leg sweeps and the occasional flipping of the opponent in the All Japan Police competitions, but everywhere else is banned.

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                    • #11
                      I've also heard that this kind of training still happens in police dojos and have heard reference to "police kendo rules" a number of times.

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                      • #12
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssAvULPzuzg

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Anonymous View Post
                          I can't believe it took 10 replies for someone to reference this.

                          Thanks for the responses all, which generated some interesting video and reading.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nykroth View Post
                            Indeed they do:
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5XXDvDtkKU

                            Check out the upper shiai-jo at 2:03.
                            "....no sensei.."
                            rofl

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                            • #15
                              Sorry if it was posted before

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQlx6CZMOo

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