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  • Kendo tournament software

    Hi everyone,

    This semester I have a class that does synthesis of the whole degree, where we need to make the developement of a software using the a "full" engineering process.

    I decided to work on a software for managing tournaments :
    -Registration.
    -Creation of tournament tree.
    -Managing tournament (entering results).
    -Publication.

    However before doing anything I need to document myself to the needs of people so I came up with a little questionaire for people who have experience with kendo tournament organisation (any kind). So I want to know how you do it now!

    So here we go -------
    1. Name of the tournament:
    2. Tournament location :
    3. Tournament date (about):
    4. Description of tournament (local championship, national championship, selection..):
    5. Tournament format (simple elimination,round robin, selection...):
    6. Divisions of tournament(team, women..):
    7. Number of participants:
    8. Method of registration of participants:
    9. Number of days between
    10. registration limit and tournament:
    11. Method of creation of tournament tree
    12. (if software, please specify):
    13. Method of creation of panflet for tournament
    14. (if software, please specify):
    15. Method of entering results for tournament (live)
    16. (if software, please specify):
    17. Method for publishing results for tournament (net, email ):
    18. Other comments :

    Thanks guys! There might be some question I did not think of, but I think that covers it well for now.

    Maxime Cardinal
    McGill Kendo Club

  • #2
    A project management tool will do allot of what is required.

    Here are a couple of ideas/suggestions.
    1) Don't specialise it towards Kendo, any competition needs to address he above criteria (eg, Tennis, Chess, Fencing, Soccer, Thugball)
    2) Have in you outline that the application is meant to supply a simple easy to use interface, rather than having heaps of features (We said a similar thing for our major project, when everyone else was promising the world, we were say sorry no can do, suffice to say we completed our project and other teams hadn't done 25% because they had over committed). Odds are they will not be looking at the complexity of the code they will be looking at the overall product.
    3) Use fun keyword like modular (especially for your tournaments Draw/Format/Results).
    3a) Since you draw is modular create/steal a couple of simply draw generations. again that way you can market enhancements.
    3b) this is the part where you can make things really complicated for the user, try and keep things as simple as possible.
    3c) a simple solution may be as basic as importing a document, more complex on may involved using spread sheets with macros rung through to databases. (the advantage of this is when you run out of time you still have something to present.

    4) You have forgotten, Volunteers, Catering and possible Time line (don't forget to include setuping and cleaning of venue)

    Anyway these project are a lot of fun as long as you don't promise the world.

    Comment


    • #3
      You should include mult-screen output.

      Screen 1: Management console (including score entering and whatnot)

      Screen 2: Switchable between Pool/Tree view and a score board for during matches.

      This would be useful for venues where a projector is available.

      Comment


      • #4
        But... what do you do when you're getting results from multiple divisions going on at the same time? (put em on a loop of some kind?)
        And what about legibility issues with a projection if all the lights are on?

        Comment


        • #5
          Rogers, I think he was asking what the conditions are in your tournament so that he can draw up some requirements for his software based on a variety of tournaments.

          1. Name of the tournament: Prairie Taikai
          2. Tournament location : Saskatoon
          3. Tournament date (about): First weekend in March
          4. Description of tournament (local championship, national championship, selection..): fun tournament associated with Saskatoon Kendo Seminar
          5. Tournament format (simple elimination,round robin, selection...): Most of the divisions are simple elimination. The mudansha division is done differently - we do 3-man pools that feed a single elimination. The #1 player in one pool fights the #2 player in another pool in the first round of the elimination. I put a top seed, a second-tier seed and a bottom seed in each pool.
          6. Divisions of tournament(team, women..): mudansha, 1-2 dan, 3+ dan, women, beginners, kids
          7. Number of participants: around 75
          8. Method of registration of participants: e-mailed list
          9. Number of days between
          10. registration limit and tournament:
          1 week
          11. Method of creation of tournament tree
          12. (if software, please specify):
          hand-seeded
          13. Method of creation of panflet for tournament
          14. (if software, please specify):
          no pamphlet
          15. Method of entering results for tournament (live)
          16. (if software, please specify):
          hand-written on the draw sheets
          17. Method for publishing results for tournament (net, email …): email
          18. Other comments :

          I think a good feature to have would be seeding. You could provide a choice of auto-seeding by rank or hand-seeding. The user needs to be able to manually adjust the draw after the seeding. Another nice feature would be to as much as possible avoid matchups between members of the same club in the first round. Of course the more constraints you put on the thing, the tougher the problem becomes from a software perspective. I've often thought about writing one of these myself but the effort isn't worth it for our little once per year tournament, and the market for such software is pretty small.

          Another cool feature would be to have the software drive electronic displays. It would be nice to have a display over each court showing who's playing, current score including penalties, who's on deck, who's double-deck. A facility for highlighting court changes would also be cool.
          Last edited by Neil Gendzwill; 23rd May 2008, 11:47 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            1. Name of the tournament: 2008 SEUSKF Tournament
            2. Tournament location : Memphis, TN
            3. Tournament date (about): Oct 4/5 (not officiallly official just yet)
            4. Description of tournament (local championship, national championship, selection..): regional federation tournament
            5. Tournament format (simple elimination,round robin, selection...): Not yet determined, but expecting round-robin then single elimination. Hantei for some divisions, limited encho for others, possibly unlimited encho for division championships
            6. Divisions of tournament(team, women..): youth, mudansha, 1dan/2dan, 3dan+, seniors, teams
            7. Number of participants: expected 125+ (but who knows what with gas prices these days)
            8. Method of registration of participants: pre-registration
            9. Number of days between registration limit and tournament: probably 10 business days
            11. Method of creation of tournament tree
            12. (if software, please specify):
            not determined yet
            13. Method of creation of panflet for tournament
            14. (if software, please specify):
            Probably MSFT Word, xerox copies, stapled programs
            15. Method of entering results for tournament (live)
            16. (if software, please specify):
            hand-written on brackets drawn out on butcher paper
            17. Method for publishing results for tournament (net, email …): email, blog
            18. Other comments :

            >>>>I think a good feature to have would be seeding. You could provide a choice of auto-seeding by rank or hand-seeding. The user needs to be able to manually adjust the draw after the seeding. Another nice feature would be to as much as possible avoid matchups between members of the same club in the first round.

            I agree with Neil's point here.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shred_lord View Post

              This would be useful for venues where a projector is available.
              Projectors you say?

              Hmm..
              I like idea of using tech at a Shiai, but I just can't help but envision something that will resemble a Bowling-League overhead.

              lol

              Comment


              • #8
                Hehe,

                Just replace people sticking bit of marked board onto a big white board. (like in the background here)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Word of warning, if you are a computer science student and this is your final thesis make sure you have buy in from your project sponsors (or lecturing staff assigned to evaluate and support your project).

                  Although a very cool idea I would like to see working, the project may not have all the depth required if you are aiming for top marks. Sometimes you are better off going for for something a bit more abstract. Ignore this comment if they are already down with the idea.

                  May I ask what technology you are going to use? (j2se, .net, your DB platform, etc....).

                  Best of luck with your project!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    kendokamax

                    Happy to help out here ( tournament helper, organiser, shimpan, former CS academic, currently SOA pre sales consultant for Oracle)

                    can you be a bit more specific about your assignment requirements vs your aspirations ?

                    you may be at risk of taking on more than you can realistically achieve for your class

                    OTOH a kendo taikai opensource tool would be a genuine asset to the community (but you can achieve a lot by just starting something - ask Linus Torvalds ;-)

                    can you brief us on what you need to show / want to do ?

                    as JCM asks do you have a target technology in mind ?

                    do you need / want to show usage of method (agile, etc) & if so how

                    you might be better to restrict your efforts to a specific vertical or horizontal section of the application domain

                    let us know !

                    regards

                    Phil..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you very much for the response so far! I hope more people will come up with some responses of my little questionnaire, not only the geeky one

                      - Martino -

                      I want it to be specialized for kendo. There is already a lot of tools out there that do a very good job for other sports. Plus it helps me limit myself to keep it a bit more simple. As you say I think the important thing is to keep simple for users, but i'm sure that will be difficult to do.

                      Volunteers,catering and time line is a good idea. But I will start with the most "essential" for a kendo tournament (competitor registration, tournament tree creation and to enter results).

                      Thanks for the idea!

                      - Shred_lord -

                      That makes sense. I was thinking of the tournament tree in the back and the score entering as a pop-up sort of thing, when people click on it. Multi window can be a simple solution for that. I don't know which one is the most simpler to use for users thought.

                      Thank you for you input!

                      - Neil -

                      As you say, that's exactly what I'm trying to do with my questions.

                      The school project is more about trying to use the different methods of software development we have learn during our degree, try to apply them and to come to our own conclusions. There will be some coding (for some kind of prototype or very early version), but the goal is not to come up with a full application (which is difficult to do when you are a full time student and dont have so much experience). I will produce a vision document, software requirement specification document and think of some kind of design and of course coding. They ask us to try to do 2 iterations in our project. So at first I want to research a bit on how people organize tournament etc..

                      For the seeding, actually thats one of the main thing I thought would be interesting to do.
                      What do you mean about who's on deck, who's double-deck?

                      Thank you for the info and comments!

                      - tango -

                      Thanks for the info! Haha I would have maybe forgot about hantei .

                      - JCM -

                      My teacher approved the project already. He said it was interesting. As I said before the most important thing in this project is to follow some of the guidelines of software engineering (something I never did before haha).

                      I still don't know about what technology I will use. Probably j2se, because I'm comfortable with it and the portability is a nice plus. But I don't know! I'm looking for something that is not too slow and where I can make interfaces that are not too gray and ugly.(awt or swing?) I don't know, I only used swt before.. but I dont think its a good idea for my project. Any advice is welcome (other technologies etc)

                      -PhilMcLaughlin -

                      I hope you have some answer to your question about my assignment now.
                      I would like to make it open source, I signed up with sourceforge. But they have a policy where everything you put on that becomes their own. I don't know if that's a good, bad or if it does not really matter that much. I would like it to live after the end of my school project. Even thought I don't have too much confidence in my coding ability (I guess you really have to put your ego on stale when you put some application in an open source project..but that's just a feeling) I hope I can make something valuable as a beginning.

                      What do you mean by specific vertical or horizontal section ? Do you mean to restrict what I would produce as an application for this project?

                      Ok thanks a lot everyone! And for the non-geeky one, please if you have time answer my little questionnaire!

                      Thank you!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        On deck means the pair who are scheduled to fight next. Double-deck is the pair after that, or at least that's the slang around here in Judo tournaments.

                        I have no clue what a "vision document" is. Maybe that's like one of the vague, poorly-worded customer requirements docs I've seen. One of them had a requirement that said "shall make <company> a world-class leader in the <industry>" or something very similar. I've had some requirements that are tough to test before but that one takes the cake...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have tournament management tools, they are are Excel spreadsheets and overhead projectors.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i can help you to code it wich lang you will use? i can made an version under Borland Delphi for windows i will organize an tournament this year, so maybe will use that soft

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not sure if this is what you are thinking of.

                              My current project is using MOSS 2007, SQL server with custom built .net and C# web parts. Different sharepoint sites allow for viewing of different results at the same time via any number of sites driven by a backend DB. Tournament registration is just a small section of the entire project.

                              Registration, on-line payment, etc are all integrated. Connection to master DB confirms "Member in good standing" with the federation, thus covered by insurance, affiliated dojo, contact information, etc. If required, registrations could be completed in the last minute. Biggest issue is registered people that don't show.

                              Logarithms written for "guaranteed two fights" style. Note that this is not two losses, but two fights. Min category number is 4 competitors then reverts to round robin. Max category size is 24 but rarely goes over 16.

                              It also has registration for judges, table people etc.

                              Project is on going as it is a "time filler" which there is not a lot of time these days.

                              The scope and "Concept of Operations" is not kendo based, but it really does not matter. In fact Kendo is somewhat easier as generally there are only there of four categories to work with. The tournament I just worked on today (not kendo) had over 80 categories ~300 competitors. Seeding is not an issue here however trees are reviewed to attempt to ensure that dojo mates don't play each other in the first two rounds if possible, but not always.

                              This is based on a current mixed set-up of both A2K DB, with web/email registration and manual competition trees.

                              I realize it is not in your questionnaire formatbut it is a little different approach to perhaps what you were thinking.

                              Hope this helps.

                              Comment

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