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Rough senseis outside Japan?

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  • Rough senseis outside Japan?

    My experience of kendo is only limited to Japan and the training methods here. And sometimes I've seen the teachers get kinda rough when training with the students. I mean like very hard tai-atari (sometimes in the head) and other things like pushing the students down. And while theyre trying to get up I actually saw one sensei give a smooth, slow, more pushing tsuki on the girls who was down.

    Does this type of "education" exist in dojos outside Japan?
    Apparently its pretty normal here and the parents are like "Please do, sensei!" but I reckon in Sweden the parents wouldnt accept it (and maybe the sensei would be off to some mental institution ;D)

  • #2
    I've trained for many years in Japan and in Australia and training can be physical anywhere. However, as an adult I'm not to easy to push around. In Japan it is often the younger students who get put through this heavy training and I think the drop out rate would be very high if you did this to kids in other countries.

    I can understand if the sensei gets a bit physical to teach a student a point or show then a weakness in their waza. However, sometimes it may seem they go too far. It does build a great fighting spirit....

    CC

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    • #3
      I find that most Japanese Senseis went through the ole' "school of tough love" so to speak. You know, tons of kakarigeiko, getting smashed to the floor, tsuki dummy, kirikaeshi till you puke etc. Overseas, they tend to be careful of the rough stuff because culturally people(locals) may think its abuse. A good example of this is the training difference between Japanese kids and non-japanese kids.

      Are they rough Senseis outside Japan?

      Yes there are. I was watching one of our squad members the other day not moving fast enough in kakarigeiko, our Sensei placed his shinai on the back of the guy's neck and threw him. The guy crashed and burned. He even got a hammering as he tried to get his shinai back off the ground. But the rough stuff also shows the Sensei likes you and is not patronizing you.

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      • #4
        Sometimes it eems like it's one way or the other. You have guys that cautious and others that go over the top because they think that is how it is supposed to be done.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ziggey
          My experience of kendo is only limited to Japan and the training methods here. And sometimes I've seen the teachers get kinda rough when training with the students. I mean like very hard tai-atari (sometimes in the head) and other things like pushing the students down. And while theyre trying to get up I actually saw one sensei give a smooth, slow, more pushing tsuki on the girls who was down.

          Does this type of "education" exist in dojos outside Japan?
          Apparently its pretty normal here and the parents are like "Please do, sensei!" but I reckon in Sweden the parents wouldnt accept it (and maybe the sensei would be off to some mental institution ;D)
          I don't think it's as rough out here as what you're describing, speaking from my limited experience. There are however sensei out here who torture their students by making them stand or sit around for half the class listening to their ponderings on the true meaning of kendo.

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          • #6
            i watched a middle school practice while in japan. i was quite surprised to see how rough the sensei was with the girls during kakarigeiko. but then i thought back to when i was that age, playing soccer. i loved a good, rough, and serious game. these girls were quite disciplined, focused. i was thoroughly impressed. they seemed to be enjoying it quite a bit too.
            Last edited by neko; 12th November 2006, 02:09 PM.

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            • #7
              I think it all depends on the person really.... Sensei's are still human.. prone to prejudice and human emotions..

              although we'd like to think Kendoka are meant to be humble and modest and caring, not everyone , including senseis are like that.

              there are sensei's who is sensei because they love teaching kendo, and they love promoting the art of kendo and spirit. But in places, there are simple senseis whos there to work, a job, a duty, something they love themselves, not necessarily they love / or good at teaching others.

              so tough luck if u meet a rough one, but students should be able to tell weather the sensei is caring rough, or just angry rough.

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              • #8
                Let's not forget that in Japan there are school teachers (especially those involved with Phys Ed) who are simply abusive.
                ....even by Japanese standards, for all of you that are going to pull that tough love BS.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nanbanjin
                  I don't think it's as rough out here as what you're describing, speaking from my limited experience. There are however sensei out here who torture their students by making them stand or sit around for half the class listening to their ponderings on the true meaning of kendo.
                  hmmm, i think i know who u might be "thinking" of. he does beautiful kendo no less. but i digress,

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cool Cat
                    I can understand if the sensei gets a bit physical to teach a student a point or show then a weakness in their waza. However, sometimes it may seem they go too far. It does build a great fighting spirit....

                    CC
                    I have seen quite a few of hard tai ataring,pushing down to the floor and then hitting more etc here,especially to the girls(maybe only to them?).It was done to me too,but not so hard because I guess the sensei thought that I am a foreigner and it might be too much for me(which isn't).As far as I ve seen,they actually do it to BUILD fighting spirit when there isn't enough.You know,when girl playing with big sensei,feels weak,spirits down,kiai down,not running etc.He told me that I should be crying when I do this.And indeed,doing it to that point is a good thing for your kendo,turned out.And it means that the sensei is really interested in helping you.I thought about the abuse thing sometimes in the beginning,but turns out your kendo gets better so...they know better

                    I hate the other way,when some people play soft with you because you are a girl.This helps in nothing

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                    • #11
                      I have heard from a number of people that after the war, a lot of Japanese men had a hard time adjusting, and tended to be fairly abusive parents. Any shrink will tell you that there is a solid link between those who were abused as children and those who dish out abuse as adults. For many of these folks, budo just provides them the platform to moralize about their behavior. I'm not saying that all rough training is abusive, just that I have met a few teachers who will beat the piss out of you because they are angry with you. The only lesson being taught is don't piss off Sensei (or burn dinner, forget to iron the clothes, etc). I have found one of the easiest ways to to see someones character is to watch how they interact with their family and people outside the dojo. If they really have issues it will show up there as well.

                      That said, I have seen a number of folks in the West "learn" abusive behavior from their teachers and continue the circle jerk of violence. I don't think it should be tolerated anywhere.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Masahiro
                        hmmm, i think i know who u might be "thinking" of. he does beautiful kendo no less. but i digress,
                        Everybody knows a person like this.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tamaki
                          I hate the other way,when some people play soft with you because you are a girl.This helps in nothing
                          Yes, I always firmly believed girls like it hard...

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                          • #14
                            In Korea, I've seen some pretty rough training but I didn't see anything too abusive lately. It's a gentler and kinder world compared to the early 70's especially with children classes. In this category, it's more of a competition to get the kids and keep them. Thing can get rough at the highschool/college competitor level but you've asked for it at that point and you are competing so there is some sort of rationale behind it.

                            There are virtually no children kendo classes in Italy. Abusive stuff would guarantee losing the precious few and potentially getting the crap beat out of you by an over-protective parent such as myself. As far as adult classes are concerned, nowhere close to anything I've seen in Korea or Japan.

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                            • #15
                              Ziggey, if you come home to sweden you won`t find any teachers behaving like that.
                              That shit just wouldn`t fly around here.
                              Tough love exist but no one kicks kids around, we have a hard enough time keeping them without that kind of crap.
                              Kendo is supposed to be fun, right?
                              Humilation and physical abuse is not fun, imho.

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