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  • muschio
    started a topic girls vs. guys?

    girls vs. guys?

    At the beggining I heard that kendo is for either men or women and that stuff, but at my dojo, things doesn't really go that way. My sensei makes girls buy their own bougu for example... and always gives preference on everything to the guys. My sensei doesn't even train women the same way that men, even tough he says the contrary.

    Anybody been there?

  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    In the beginning,we're all beginners,gender doesn't change that.No one person is born to be good at Kendo,yet they have the potential to learn.Even in the times of Feudal Japan,it wasn't uncommon to see a woman pick up a sword,nor was it looked down upon.True it may be that a man's body can become strong at a quicker rate than that of a woman's,Kendo isn't only about physical strength,and to say that it is is foolish.Kendo relies also on balance and agility,as well as brains.You need to be able to strategize (sp?) and make quick desisions.Also take into account that in battle,an opponent is an opponent,and thus should be treated equally,despite gender,age,and physical ability.

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  • Wout
    replied
    actually, I feel that discussions about women or men are better in this or that sport is always akinda forced dicussion.
    Everyone looks at the top players and sees well well men are better than women, or the other way around doesn't really matter really.

    And in kendo it doesn't really matter either wether you are a girl or a boy. I only do kendo for about 8 months and this is what I see:
    - I am a man and there are women who are better than me like there are men who are better than me in kendo, difference in the end = 0, can't win from the first as as I can't win from the latter. In general someone who is better in kendo than you is better in kendo, period.


    - Even if men where better at kendo like they are at sprinting, if a woman is better than you she is better than you in kendo. In the same way you will lose to Marion Jones in sprinting (unless you are a very good sprinter yourself) your 'manship' won't save you there . Sure some men are faster then Jones but an athlete does only care if he himself is faster than her , the fact that Green is faster doesn't interest him one bit. (using sprint metafor cuz in sprint it is clear who is best).

    - and about progress, who is faster, for men it is easier to build up muscle. and that's all.

    learning something takes effort, time, sweat and a lot of patience, regardless of what it is.

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  • Karaken
    replied
    Originally posted by Stimpson J. Cat
    Can superior skill and mental strength overcome physical advantage? Of course, take a look at a 70 year old sensei striking a fast high school kid at will, take a look at the woman six inches shorter than me and half my weight who easily defeated me in the last tournament I attended. I had a physical advantage, I'll arm-wrestle her for money any day, but her skill and mental strength were a bigger advantage than my physical strength and size.

    After this post I will give up on this subject, because apparently I am not explaining myself well, or people don't want to hear what I am saying.
    I'll give you wrestling, boxing maybe even Judo. However, I don't think Kendo is one of the sports where physical strength or size has advantage. If male has advantage over female maybe it's because there are more male kendoka therefore statistically more talented ones belong to male population. I can see agility, better reaction time, endurance playing a big factor as well as mental strength and discipline. Being able to maintain calm under stress would be a big one. None of the factors I mentioned above exclusively belong to male gender however..

    Center..

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  • Old Warrior
    replied
    I Get The Point

    My comment was simply intended to point out that size and strength are but one component in the arsenal of skills it takes to be good at Kendo. One needs to know how to properly exploit the advantages God has given you. If you can do this, you can maximize your ability. The fact that an opponent is bigger or faster is not the end of the story.

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  • mystic_kendoka
    replied
    i think its the latter, you have made your self very clear, and i couldnt agree more...

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  • Stimpson J. Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by Old Warrior
    The most dangerous weapon is the human mind
    I absolutely agree, like I have heard marines say, "My rifle and my pistol are only tools, I am the weapon." But you are talking about mental strength, while I was talking about physical strength. My original assertion on this, (which was not the main point of my first post, that seems to have been largely forgotten) was that there are times when being bigger and stronger is an advantage. Whether the competitiors are both male, both female, or one of each, most of the time one of them is going be bigger and/or stronger than the other. On average men are bigger and stronger than women, so the majority of the time the physical advantage will favor the man when a man and woman compete.

    Can superior skill and mental strength overcome physical advantage? Of course, take a look at a 70 year old sensei striking a fast high school kid at will, take a look at the woman six inches shorter than me and half my weight who easily defeated me in the last tournament I attended. I had a physical advantage, I'll arm-wrestle her for money any day, but her skill and mental strength were a bigger advantage than my physical strength and size.

    After this post I will give up on this subject, because apparently I am not explaining myself well, or people don't want to hear what I am saying.

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  • samurai999
    replied
    I hate going up against girls. If you lose, the male contingent makes fun of you. If you win, everybody thinks you're a bully.

    My 0.02$ (US)
    Tim

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  • Karaken
    replied
    Originally posted by Stimpson J. Cat
    The point is, that the guy I was talking about, with his superior size and strength, has options I don't, the example I gave before was that he can taiatari me and put me off my balance while I can't do the same thing to him. He can also do others things to me which I can't do in return, like fling my arms out of the way from tsubazaria (probably spelled wrong) He however, CAN do everything I can do, think big people can't be quick? Turn on the TV during an NBA or NFL game sometime. So even if I don't crash into him, I am at a disadvantage just by the fact that he has more options.
    Big man pushing you hard gives you a perfect chance for Hiki-Kote.. Bigger the better target..( Should I say taller the better )

    Center..

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  • Old Warrior
    replied
    Reality

    The most dangerous weapon is the human mind. If some wants to use size and strength to win, there are obvious counters. The one thing I have found that separates most men from women is the ability to commit everything and the willingness to be nasty and combatative. Having said that, I can tell you that I know a woman epee fencer, who is 100lbs lighter than me and who I have never beaten and could never beat. She is the most fearless person I haver met. Now, is she the exception. But to have fenced with her was always a privilege and all my size and 15 years of 2X's a week lessons never did me one bit of good. She was just better and always will be!

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  • Stimpson J. Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by Shazzanzzz
    well, you don't have to clash do with him... sidestep and hit the humongous do, if you can get around it.

    size doesn't matter, big people complain about little fast people all the time, too.
    The point is, that the guy I was talking about, with his superior size and strength, has options I don't, the example I gave before was that he can taiatari me and put me off my balance while I can't do the same thing to him. He can also do others things to me which I can't do in return, like fling my arms out of the way from tsubazaria (probably spelled wrong) He however, CAN do everything I can do, think big people can't be quick? Turn on the TV during an NBA or NFL game sometime. So even if I don't crash into him, I am at a disadvantage just by the fact that he has more options.

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  • Neil Gendzwill
    replied
    Originally posted by Catherine
    However, I have seen Japanese women 6 dans take apart Australian male yondans (think tall and Australian looking).
    You can't really argue from specific cases like that. Some women can beat some men at every sport, we're talking the general case here. FWIW there's a couple of Canadian godan women that would probably make mincemeat of Australian yondan men, but that's neither here nor there.
    (Mind you, I have also seen Australian male nidans get points on Japanese 7 dans in mock shiai.)
    Yeah, well it's a little different when the flags are out for real. The top team guys here all have a few gears the rest of us schmucks don't get to see in friendly practice.

    I agree that women's kendo is only recently being taken more seriously, even in Japan. Mind you, I also think that worldwide there is more interest in women's kendo than there is in say, women's golf. (Maybe that says something about the people who train in kendo).
    Eh? There's huge interest in women's golf these days, what with Michell Wie and others taking on the men.

    The study showed a significant fall in kendoka overall at about 4 dan level and a significant drop in women at about the same level. 4 dan is about the time that Japanese women would get married etc and I wondered if leaving kendo to take up home duties and also possibly continuing work had anything to do with that drop.
    Maybe, but yondan is about the level people finish college at and enter the real world, after which they either don't have time for kendo, or are burned out on it, or both.

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  • muschio
    replied
    My bows to you Catherine. Here is when I find that being a girl and a women, ain't the same.

    Really, you are an inspiration to many of us.

    Thanks for being.

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  • muschio
    replied
    thanks

    Originally posted by aikanaro
    From the comments about your sensei, it seems he's a moron. There aren't many women in kendo compared to the number of men, but there is no particular reason to say that they are less able in any way. Maybe, at the beginning there's a little more need of strengthening the arms (not always the case), but proper training should take care of that, as kendo is more based on skill rather than brute strength. You just ignore this attitude, train and enforce your argument with some well-placed men on men's mens

    On the other hand, I'm also located in Mexico. I wouldn't like anyone to think this attitude is the common rule at mexican dojos, the general attitude is to welcome anybody who has the willingness and discipline to do kendo, regardless of sex.
    I'm glad that you saw my thread back there and now I know who can have a little more perspective around here... It's also very motivating for me to know, that perhaps I am not one in a million, but one in a hundread women with troubles like this on this place (meaning Mx).

    Thanks for your support and I hope to hear from you more ophen. By the way, I found really important in your reply that you actually explained this thing about attitudes and mexican dojos.

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  • Hai_hai
    replied
    Originally posted by Yowai
    Why not? Although the Japanese are intellectually superior, they have a physical disadvantage.
    Let me rephrase, not gaijin but non-Japanese team kendoka will never win in the World Championships.
    Winning in kendo, for the most part, is about who shows better form, speed, spirit, etc. However, when it comes to the World Championships, winning in kendo is about Japanese national pride. Get it? They are discriminating against non-Japanese team players. There are plenty of Japanese people who make it on foreign teams because they were born and have citizenship in another country. They aren't really gaijin but they are not going to win because they represent another country.

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