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Gym workout is bad for kendoka ?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Fudo-Shin View Post
    OK, it's something I will look into, you can all calm down. I'm not trying outright to be a curmudgeon here but it's difficult to pry me away from traditional Japanese methods when it comes to kendo/budo. That is one of a few reasons, some of which I have expressed here.
    I know this is not what you're getting at, but just because the japanese do something doesn't make it right. A lot of the ideas about physical exercise, particularly stretching and warm up in japanese budo are outdated or ineffective. Some of it is dangerous.

    The idea that "it didn't do me any harm, so it mustn't do any harm" is extremely prevalent in the martial arts, to their detriment. Also, in western society in general there's a stereotype that eastern civilisations are some bastion of knowledge which western societies can't approach. Again, not something to be encouraged

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    • #47
      Japanese ideas on rehydration- or the lack of it- have led to kendo death(s) in the past...

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      • #48
        "Bulking up" does not happen by accident. It takes a lot of really hard work, and you basically need to give your entire life an over-haul to really get results, changing your approach to diet and so forth. You're not going to pop out of the gym one day after a couple weeks and all of a sudden start tearing through your shirts like the Incredible Hulk.

        I would be really suspicious of anyone dissuading you from having a better over-all level of fitness. If the warning is about not trying to take on things you just plain aren't ready for, that's sound advice. But to avoid it all together? No way.

        I find it really odd that anyone interested in budo would shy away from developing their body.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by stealth_monkey View Post
          I know this is not what you're getting at, but just because the japanese do something doesn't make it right. A lot of the ideas about physical exercise, particularly stretching and warm up in japanese budo are outdated or ineffective. Some of it is dangerous.
          I see what your saying but I dare you to say that to the next hanshi you meet, if you catch my drift - preferably before jigeiko.

          To all that are pro for weights here; I do concede that at only 3 sessions in the dojo per week, I find it increasingly difficult at my age to get back to a decent base of fitness and so may get back to doing some extra training such as swimming on top of keiko. After reading thoughts here though, I might also try some different exercises with weights and see how it helps.

          There was a time when I did pick up dumbells at home a few times a week but I found it didn't really help my kendo but that could be down to the way I was using them. I would be grateful if someone could suggest a few different exercises aside from what has already been mentioned here. In particluar, I'm interested in improving core-strength and improving my overall fitness, without causing "tightness" elsewhere in my kendo.

          One thing that hasn't been talked about here so far is the difference between fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibres and their relationship to weights.

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          • #50
            Here's 61 days worth:

            http://www.crossfitsouthcobb.com/con...ent-no-excuses

            No equipment, machines, gimmicks or dollars needed.

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            • #51
              OK Jakob, I'll take that challenge!

              An old injury means that squats are not really suitable for me though, so I might have to skimp on those somewhat, especially where they ask for 200 squats in one day! Also, I need to shorten it to less than half of the 61 days, I will be tapering off training in about 3 weeks time so plan to do the first (easier) half or so of the crossfit routine while I will also try to ramp up intensity during keiko. I will start Monday.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Fudo-Shin View Post
                I wonder what they did in the old days before gyms?

                Just a thought, but I wonder if the old guys elect not to gym because their bodies are no longer up to it anyway - yet after years of budo their bodies have become accustomed to the routine. Or if they truly believe that there is little benefit in it aiding their budo?
                In the "good old days" you were probably working on the farm all day before practice....or working hard doing something. The good old days were pretty hard.

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                • #53
                  In the "old days" weren't farmers their own thing?

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                  • #54
                    Not sure I have anything terribly beneficial to add... but...

                    Do you consider this weight training or kendo suburi...
                    http://www.murakumokai.jp/matuba/katudo/tanren.jpg

                    My own opinion fwiw...
                    Going to the gym is exercise, kendo is exercise. Lifting weights is lifting weights... lifting a shinai is also lifting weights.
                    Same things done differently...

                    To those that say "ya but bodybuilders"... fact is they focus on a very small aspect of fitness and lifting... doing that would possibly not be beneficial to kendo.
                    Likewise, going to the dojo and only practicing one abstract waza (and nothing else) for hours on end, day in day out for months, may make you good at it but will not holistically improve your overall kendo.

                    In general, improving your fitness, endurance, stamina, full body strenght, recovery rate, mental adaption to lactic acid, and core strenght cannot but help in any other athletic endevour.
                    Going to the gym and power walking for 1 hour and grabbing a mocha chocha frappe latee pappe dappe chino will not...
                    Neither will sitting in your bedroom watching youtube and lifting your 20kg dumbell in one exercise till failure.
                    Its about finding the correct balance.

                    And there are a few hanshi who know this... espcially anyone from a sports science Uni!

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                    • #55
                      I've been doing kendo and other martial arts for a while now, and for a while I convinced myself that that was "enough" in terms of exercise and that I was generally healthy and fit. I personally came to the realization about a year ago that doing kendo recreationally wasn't "enough" by a long shot and took a really long hard look at what was happening during kendo practices, the rest of my exercise routine, my daily levels of activity, my caloric intake, my diet, and my heart rate.

                      It does depend on the person on a case by case basis, but personally I sit in a car to drive to work, sit at a desk for 9 hours unless I'm doing lab work, where I sit at a lab bench, sit at a computer at home, and sit watching tv. So yea, after many years of thinking 4.5 hours of kendo a week was good enough, I crunched the numbers and realized it wasn't good enough at all.... Not compared to the rest of the week....

                      So yea, I am firmly in the other camp now, the whole look at your whole life and do more exercise however more you can do it camp, I didn't do enough exercise outside of kendo before to even seriously merit concern about overtraining in something else. Considering the students I see only a few people I see merit some concern about over-training, the great majority of students are firmly on the other side of the line, they probably would benefit from doing more exercise, myself included.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by enkorat View Post
                        I've been doing kendo and other martial arts for a while now, and for a while I convinced myself that that was "enough" in terms of exercise and that I was generally healthy and fit. I personally came to the realization about a year ago that doing kendo recreationally wasn't "enough" by a long shot and took a really long hard look at what was happening during kendo practices, the rest of my exercise routine, my daily levels of activity, my caloric intake, my diet, and my heart rate.

                        It does depend on the person on a case by case basis, but personally I sit in a car to drive to work, sit at a desk for 9 hours unless I'm doing lab work, where I sit at a lab bench, sit at a computer at home, and sit watching tv. So yea, after many years of thinking 4.5 hours of kendo a week was good enough, I crunched the numbers and realized it wasn't good enough at all.... Not compared to the rest of the week....

                        So yea, I am firmly in the other camp now, the whole look at your whole life and do more exercise however more you can do it camp, I didn't do enough exercise outside of kendo before to even seriously merit concern about overtraining in something else. Considering the students I see only a few people I see merit some concern about over-training, the great majority of students are firmly on the other side of the line, they probably would benefit from doing more exercise, myself included.
                        It seemed to be working for you, as the last time I saw you, you were looking really good.

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                        • #57
                          Another video showing how elite athletes use resistance training. Dara Torres, Olympian swimmer, still going strong at age 45.

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WezYO...4bFAAAAAAAAFAA

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                          • #58
                            And yet another elite athlete, using weight training in a slightly different way (injury rehab). Rasmus Henning, professional triathlete.
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJRV-...76FAAAAAAAAAAA

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