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Did I do something terribly wrong?

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  • Did I do something terribly wrong?

    This is not a bitch-n-moan thread. I just need some questions answered.

    I visited another dojo last night. Training was good, I really enjoyed it.

    During jigeiko, I went up against a dan player. It was our very first jigeiko. He scored a good men on me, I acknowledged it, and there was a mini-break of about 3 secs (I was pondering on his men cut). He sonkyo immediately after that and said "if you want to take a break then get out of here" or words to that effect. The tone wasn't friendly at all. I was in shock. Anyway I sonkyo and bow properly and sat down afterwards in seiza completely stunned. Then he came over to me and said the same thing again, but this time there were dojo members around who heard him as well. I nodded my head but I didn't say anything.

    My spirit died there and then and I have lost any will to do jigeiko that night.

    Right now I still don't understand what I did wrong. It's the first time someone has taken offense. I'm trying to develop good kendo spirit and to do good kendo, so I need to understand. Can you guys enlighten me?

  • #2
    IMHO

    IMHO, it is unreasonable for the host to expect that their guest would know the dojo protocols, esp on the first visit.

    That said, however, I personally don't recommend pausing during jigeiko, esp if you are a guest and/or junior to the other person.

    I was taught that if the other partner is obviously senior to you, acknowledging the strike can appear presumptuous.

    Moreover, it can be kind of annoying to have the flow of the keiko be interrupted. All that acknowledging and bowing can appear courteous in the beginning, but after a while, it'll feel like you are simply spending time on something else instead of keiko.

    Besides, there is also the possibility that the other person didn't think the strike was good and wanted to keep going, but your pausing kinda didn't allow that.

    However, not having been there, it's simply really hard to say. Despite that, I simply don't see why someone would get so worked up about it.

    Personally, I only acknowledge stuff now when the strike is so definitive that I'm flat-footed and can't keep going anyway (i.e. it ended the conversation). If my strike or the opponent's strike isn't so definitive that we "have" to stop and reset, we don't.

    Oh yeah, don't think and debrief during keiko...do that AFTER keiko.

    FWIW.
    Last edited by DCPan; 22nd June 2004, 10:15 AM.

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    • #3
      Thanks David for the insightful comments. I'll keep them in mind.

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      • #4
        I don't think he should've said it like that.. he should have known that you were trying to be polite and give him respect for a hit that you thought was good.. he could've just politely said to keep going =\

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        • #5
          These kind of stuff, more often than not, it's just misunderstanding. I've had incidences where someone thought i was a jerk, or i thought someone else was. But, almost everytime, if i talk to him/her after the practice, we actually become friends.
          If he thinks you did something wrong, ask him what you did wrong after class and say sorry, say you'll do better next time, etc. If he's a total jerk about it, well, i guee, just kick his ass in kendo next time. THa'ts what i would do.

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          • #6
            No you didn't do anythingn "wrong". I almost always bow to my opponent during ji-keiko or ippon shobu when a yuko datotsu occurs. I did it when I was doing keiko with a 7th dan, he didn't seem to mind. I do it with my sensei(s), and I have not yet encountered a problem or instructed other wise. If you do happen to visit that particular dojo again please speak with this "dan" holder also his sensei and discuss the type of "ji-keiko" the club is used to, but do let him know you didn't do anything wrong.

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            • #7
              I think a host should never say such a thing to someone coming to their place for the first time. Its very unpolite.

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              • #8
                Tsuki

                Next time give him a tsuki in the back of the head, right after the match ends. Instant respect assured.

                Regards,

                Louis

                p.s. an upward kote between the legs has the same effect, breath in, breath out. Combine the 2 and he will call you masta !

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                • #9
                  Just out of interest, which dojo did you go to?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by aru-ma
                    Just out of interest, which dojo did you go to?
                    Can't say - too politically sensitive.

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                    • #11
                      why not?
                      are u afraid? so what!
                      It is most unfortunate for a dojo to have such a player.
                      u should undoubtably approach such a person aggressively.
                      Well if he owns the dojo then u should leave and regret that u even went there.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rawoo
                        why not?
                        are u afraid? so what!
                        It is most unfortunate for a dojo to have such a player.
                        u should undoubtably approach such a person aggressively.
                        Well if he owns the dojo then u should leave and regret that u even went there.

                        I must berate you for your post.

                        Androu is doing the right thing for not naming the dojo in question (no matter how much gossip we all want to find out), this is because one should not talk badly about another dojo on an internet forum without having first spoken with their dojocho or sensei. Even then, I still don't think it is proper to post their dojo name on the internet.

                        Secondly, your comment "so what!", which I guess is your advice for Androu's course of action. That I believe is wrong also. You cannot just go around and do what you want with no regards to the actions that you've taken.

                        Finally, one should never approach another person aggresively. What is the point of kendo and what is it trying to teach you. Even if you are not into all that spiritual bs, becomming mad and aggresive creats a suki in your stance and composture, thus allowing your opponent to utilise that against you.

                        You don't have to take any of the advice I've written, but that's my take on things.

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                        • #13
                          No aggression

                          Definatly,

                          you shouldn't be agressive. It tempts to screw up your tsuki and its pretty hard sticking it in the back of the men.

                          regards,

                          Louis

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                          • #14
                            Just to make myself clear.

                            Suki is japanese for opening. It is different to Tsuki.

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                            • #15
                              Aggressive doesnt equal to mad.
                              Do not be humble to a bully.

                              "You cannot just go around and do what you want with no regards to the actions that you've taken."
                              Who said anything about that? maybe u r one of this kind of person urself so u dont know how bad it is. Well let me tell u it's bad and it's not to be tolerated.
                              Last edited by Rawoo; 22nd June 2004, 07:52 PM.

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