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  • keiko

    I just want to throw a comment out there. I hope people with more experience than me can deepen my understanding.

    Keiko is very different from shiai in many respects. What I am thinking about here is that in keiko I have been punched, tripped, had my shinai throw across the dojo etc. as a form of training.

    I am starting to understand that, from a teachers point of view, that these things are done 'in the moment', prehaps as a way of pointing out a mistake with the philosophy of being shown once and being expected to remember.

    Of course, in shiai these things would never happen. But, it suprises me that people on the forum are objecting to this sort of behaviour, as if keiko with a senior is somehow governed by a fixed and unyielding set of rules.

    I know my kendo is very incomplete, but as I move along I begin to appreciate that that, feasibly, a teacher can, with good reason, flip their aite out the dojo.

    Anyway, this is just a half-formed thought. Hoping someone can polish it!
    Last edited by Hinokuni; 14th July 2004, 12:23 AM.

  • #2
    Keiko "Rules"

    This is exactly correct, the "rules" of keiko are not the same as shiai.

    It is a result of the sensei's experiences in training and what they think is acceptable. Things are done to make the student aware of many things such as holding the shinai correctly, knowing where the center of the floor is, staying alert before, after, and during an attack, etc., etc. And of course it differs from dojo to dojo for the very reason mentioned above.

    When you visit it makes it important to observe what is going on and "see" how the dojo trains. This can be quite a chore. When in doubt, mind your manners and practice hard and clean. It works for me anyway.

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    • #3
      Hit the nail on the head

      Originally posted by Curtis
      When in doubt, mind your manners and practice hard and clean.
      Wow, I wish I'd written that.

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      • #4
        Lovely girl Keiko. Salt of the earth.

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        • #5
          "Keiko is very different from shiai in many respects. What I am thinking about here is that in keiko I have been punched, tripped, had my shinai throw across the dojo etc. as a form of training."-Hinokuni

          ok..what is keiko? or shiai?
          i give the chance to "practice" with my new sempai(sp?) and he treat me like a dan holder(which im not). i've been shoved until im trip...(just 2 days in bogu). is it normal people do this to you? as hinokuni said,"I have been punched, tripped, had my shinai throw across the dojo etc."

          but im glad he practice with me(new experience) and i hope, really hope i can learn sumting from him.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Hinokuni
            Keiko is very different from shiai in many respects. What I am thinking about here is that in keiko I have been punched, tripped, had my shinai throw across the dojo etc. as a form of training.

            I am starting to understand that, from a teachers point of view, that these things are done 'in the moment', prehaps as a way of pointing out a mistake with the philosophy of being shown once and being expected to remember.
            When teaching music to a student I regularly deviate from the study (i.e. we are going over a piece of music in tandem and i'll just start playing something different while the student is expected to continue with the piece).

            -It helps form concentration and the ability to play through mistakes without losing time (once the symphony starts there are no mistakes.. only improvisations.. you cannot stop.. you gotta keep playing)
            -forces the student out of thier "safety zone" in practice

            Among other things... I know teaching music isn't what your talking about but this happens in all types of different studies not just Kendo and it's a GOOD thing

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hinokuni

              Keiko is very different from shiai in many respects. What I am thinking about here is that in keiko I have been punched, tripped, had my shinai throw across the dojo etc. as a form of training.

              Of course, in shiai these things would never happen. But, it suprises me that people on the forum are objecting to this sort of behaviour, as if keiko with a senior is somehow governed by a fixed and unyielding set of rules.
              Tripping, pushing and flying shinai is more common than you might think in shiai. At the worlds last year I saw plenty of people getting knocked on thier asses, some kendoka getting hit after being knocked to the ground and quite alot of pushing and shoving. Make no mistake some people will use what ever works to get the point.

              In keiko it should be different but human nature is typically competive, just use good kendo, and don't let people push you around.

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              • #8
                Keiko is not developing only your kendo techiniques but also your mind.
                Sensei/semapai usually give you a hard time not because they hate you or something. They wish to develop a strong mind for you. In kendo, regardless of how tired you are, how many times you get hit, how you were treated, you have to fight until the last minutes before your sensei/sempai tell you to stop. By doing that, you will develop a mind that regardless of how hard the situation is you will keep your self together and fight until you get your job done.

                I believe it is a very good thing to develop. Though, when I first time get knock on to the floor, chasing my shinai around the dojo, and tsuki to the wall, threw outside the dojo, I question my sensei's purpose QQ. If you can learn this spirit from kendo, you will be having a lot of advantages when you are working.

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                • #9
                  last thursday was my first time to keiko. i was very nervious but after we started my adrinalin took over. it took over so much so that i didnt feel all the brusis that i now have better very good fun

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