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  • Hidari doh cuts

    Could anyone shed some light on how and when to make a hidari doh cut? From taiatari, most doh cuts are to migi doh. Although a much smaller and more difficult target to hit, hidari doh is often left unguarded since we rarely -- if ever -- practice hidari doh cuts. I am most interested in hiki waza because I am short (5', 6") and slow, and keiko better when close to my opponent. I recently did keiko with a 6', 6" opponent. I was able to get in one or two minimally passable kote cuts before it started raining men cuts on me. I realized, too late, that it was a big mistake to fight at my opponents maai. Well, chalk that one up to inexperience. I was, however, able to surprise my opponent with one cut to hidari doh. I do not know if it was executed correctly, but it did present an available target. After that one cut, however, it really started raining men cuts on me. Again, I should have stepped close inside where my opponents reach advantage would have been lessened. Next time, for sure.

    Thank you for your advice,

    keithhf

  • #2
    I'm not really sure, but I think it's symbolic. The cut you're reffering to is the side where the saya (scabbard) is worn, so in a real fight it would have been more difficult to cut. IMHO, that's the reason why this cut isn't really used.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Comment


    • #3
      First, you probably mean gyaku-do. Hidari means left, which is the 'normal' do-side.

      A couple of threads here

      http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/sho...ighlight=gyaku
      http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/sho...ighlight=gyaku

      Jakob

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JSchmidt
        Hidari means left, which is the 'normal' do-side.
        You sure about this? I believe that Migi is more the more common cut. Migi reffering to the recievers right.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by supernils
          You sure about this? I believe that Migi is more the more common cut. Migi reffering to the recievers right.
          You're right..I apparantly need more than 1 cup of coffee before being able to tell left from right on Monday mornings.

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          • #6
            I think during shiai, some judges will not give points to the opposite do cut because druing the samurai period, there is usually another sword haning there which it will make that do cut ineffective.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by keithhf
              Could anyone shed some light on how and when to make a hidari doh cut? ...
              Try asking your sensei.

              Comment


              • #8
                I have seen a point given for it once. It sounded like a shotgun went off in the dojo. To get a point you have to hit it perfectly and very hard. It would have to cut through one sword and two saya. :

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hongsermeier
                  ... and very hard.:
                  this is the first time I have ever heard that a cut should be hard....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by emitbrownne
                    this is the first time I have ever heard that a cut should be hard....
                    Any doh cut should be hard. Hit it like you mean it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by emitbrownne
                      this is the first time I have ever heard that a cut should be hard....
                      me too - allthough i'm just a beginner but my sensei especially stressed, that a hit should not be HARD but SHARP...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In most cases sharp is correct. This is not normal. :

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gyakudo...

                          I have been giving a point for a Gyakudo last Taikai. The hit must be precise, sound hard, the oponant must be stun, surprise and you should do a very good long zanshin, very far away from your oponant. Do not try this at home, or on a oponant, please be careful about this technique, pratice in front of the mirror first...

                          You people should stop thinking about how kendo represent samurai way and fighting style. Kendo is evolving, try new technique, dont wait for those conservative Japanese dictacte your way of doing kendo, why not "us" show them what is a proper point, or "this" is a good point? Its just a question of mentality...japaneses arent alway right because they are japaneses and 7th dan...

                          that was my beef for this month

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hongsermeier
                            In most cases sharp is correct. This is not normal. :
                            You've got to hit sharp of course but for doh and especially gyaku-doh, you've got to hit with some authority. If you think in terms of the targets, kote is quite small, not much power required to cut through a wrist, men you're dealing with a skull so more power required, doh you're cutting a torso so you need the most power. This is the explanation I have from my teachers.

                            Oddly enough, most beginners bludgeon you to death with their men but are afraid they'll hurt you on doh and so make minimal contact. I find it takes some concerted effort to get people to hit doh with any sort of power.

                            Back to the original question: the main reason normal doh is preferred over gyaku-doh is that the target is opened more easily. If you look at the way someone stands in chudan, their left elbow is naturally lower than their right. If you step in sharply and startle them into defending men or tsuki, their hands usually come forward a bit and this gives you an opening for normal doh. But it's not enough of an opening for gyaku-doh - to get that one, you need to get them to swing big. Furthermore, like any doh attack the judges like to see that you saw or created the opportunity and didn't just flail away, hoping the target would be open at the moment your shinai was heading that way. So doh is hard to score to start with and doubly hard for gyaku-doh.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hongsermeier
                              It would have to cut through one sword and two saya. :
                              Would it have to? I have heard the same reasoning before and I realize there would have been more "stuff" and some of it very substantial (like a sword blade) on that side, but with the cut coming from a high angle down to a point not much below the point of the rib cage on that side, it doesn't seem to me that the washizaki or saya would be that much in the way. Especially if you were moving to your left as you cut (think a mirror image of kihon do practice). It would take a more precise cut, but it doesn't seem outrageously difficult. Anybody ever stick a bokken through their hakama himo and try it?

                              Another question here, if you did strike the sword blade, would it really be possible to cut through a sword like this? I know they broke sometimes, I would guess especially if the edge got notched or chipped by a piece of a opponents armor or something, but expecting to cut through one seems like a lot.

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