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  • Jodan Tsuki

    I was wondering if any of you do tsuki from jodan or nito. If so, how do you guys do tsuki from that kamae? It's been fairly effective for me during keiko. Haven't tried it in a shiai yet.

  • #2
    Ive tried it on my own doing Nito suburi at home, just dropping the kensen down to chudan and doing tsuki as normal. Seems much easier and can be done further away than Itto kendo.

    Would like to see a video of that in Jodan though and wonder if there is one on the Nito video site some one mentioned... .

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    • #3
      Moocow...I have the Nito video from E-Bogu. It shows doing tsuki using the shoto (short sword). Looks like it could be pretty effective. Use daito as fake then come in with shoto for tsuki. :

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Musha
        Seems much easier and can be done further away than Itto kendo.
        this is quite impossible. The katate tsuki in "itto" kendo is done with a 39 shinai. In Nito, you have to start from up then go down and hit the tsuki, this, with a smaller shinai. In Itto, if you start in chudan, you are already pointing at your opponent's throath.

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        • #5
          But Litige, when you do normal kendo you are actually using your left hand to do the Tsuki and that is closer to your body. I also learned that you should use your hips and not reach out at all so your Shinai should hardly move when doing normal tsuki giving even less distance than kote.

          Here is a page from my book about Nito kendo.

          http://community.webshots.com/script...ecurity=UaWSoF

          The text next to the pictures on the left translates as follows.

          'Basic tsuki

          First lower your shinai and point it at your opponents throat,
          Then move forwards and hit tsuki. This is Tsuki in two steps.'

          The other method not visible is Tsuki in one step.

          I am sure there are other ways to do tsuki but as you can see the man uses his whole arm and the shinai to hit Tsuki giving a much greater distance. It still says use the hips but the distance seems much greater to me.
          And Litige I have been using my normal length shinai to practice Nito. The only reason nito shinai are shorter is because if you try to hold them 1/4 from the end of the tsuka when you swing shomen the end of the shinai is useless and gets in the way. Nito shinai are only shorter in the tsuka not the shinai it's self .

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          • #6
            Musha: link not working

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            • #7
              Wish this forums file attachment worked correctly

              try these

              http://community.webshots.com/album/87843585HioApY

              http://community.webshots.com/photo/...30444044UaWSoF
              Last edited by Musha; 2nd April 2004, 07:46 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Musha
                But Litige, when you do normal kendo you are actually using your left hand to do the Tsuki and that is closer to your body.
                Apples and oranges, you're comparing the basic morote-zuki we all learn at the start with a single-handed tsuki from jodan or nito. More appropriate would be katate-zuki from chudan, where we not only extend with the left hand but also quite commonly cross over to attack on the left foot. Tons of distance there.

                As far as katate-zuki from jodan or nito being "much easier" than from chudan... well, you did post it on April Fool's. I frankly can't think of a much more difficult technique than that, unless you make it katate-harai-tsuki from jodan.

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                • #9
                  Litige..
                  this is quite impossible. The katate tsuki in "itto" kendo is done with a 39 shinai. In Nito, you have to start from up then go down and hit the tsuki, this, with a smaller shinai. In Itto, if you start in chudan, you are already pointing at your opponent's throath.
                  Sorry I was not talking about Katate tsuki. I just got the impression that Litige was saying that because your shinai in Nito is smaller that it would be harder to make the distance. And he also said that it would be hard to lower the shinai then attack Tsuki. I have never done Tsuki against any one while doing Nito, Katate tsuki or Jyoudan but from what it says in the book by a dojyo that only teaches Nito and looking at the photos it does not seem harder than Itto.

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                  • #10
                    There's the danger of book-learning for you. If I were to tell you seme is easy, just step in sharply and your opponent falls apart, maybe you'd believe that too?

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                    • #11
                      I can't be bothered this time..

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Musha
                        I can't be bothered this time..
                        Musha, not meaning to flame you, but i don't see why you "bother" anyway.
                        If a cyber-sempai like Neil were to correct me or tell me i was talking out of my hat, i'd either say "thanks, didn't know that" or just let it be, rather than trying to refute him and/or justify myself. There's nothing wrong with being wrong, unless it turns into a habit.

                        As to the high frequency of nito and jodan threads such as this one, i find it slightly disturbing, as i was told these are the kind of techniques one might attempt after achieving third or fourth dan at the very least.

                        "[So] I arrived in college, searching for my degree
                        But Lord knows a degree isn't all i got, and that's the way it's supposed to be.
                        I hope that when I get kids of my own, they really don't get shook
                        when I tell them that there are things they got to learn that can't be found in books." -Gil Scott-Heron.

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                        • #13
                          Not-I I said that because I do not want to go off topic with this. I 've already done that about 4 times and went on for days .
                          I have no problem with taking peoples word on things but I just don't like it when people don't explain things more like saying "I know that is the true and that is the end of it".

                          Neil Gendzwill..As far as katate-zuki from jodan or nito being "much easier" than from chudan... well, you did post it on April Fool's. I frankly can't think of a much more difficult technique than that, unless you make it katate-harai-tsuki from jodan.
                          Neil why is it more difficult? Telling me would be better than slaging me off.

                          Since I saw I documentary about Eiga and watched his fight I think that his Tsuki was the best excample of a tsuki I have seen. I have never seen any one do one in my dojyo and my sensei said that no one should do it because it is too dangerouse. Some one did it by accident yesterday and chined me knocking my jaw up lol . So I think there would be much more power in Ryoute (Two handed tsuki).

                          On the other hand Nito tsuki seems like it would be difficult to aim with one hand. Though as I said I am sure if done correctly you would hit your opponent even from Touma or a further distance..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Musha
                            Neil why is it more difficult? Telling me would be better than slaging me off.
                            I haven't slagged you off, you take it as slagging off because you seem to be so desperate to be in a teaching role and any suggestion that you may have something to learn causes you insult.

                            I've told you you're wrong because you haven't tried it. Like much of the advice you give, it's based on extremely limited experience and guesswork. All I can say is, try to bring a shinai down from jodan, one handed, past your opponent's defences and accurately hit tsuki. It's very, very difficult. Take a look at the first post - you've got a world class competitor asking for advice because he is not yet confident enough in the technique to try it in shiai.

                            Lots of stuff in kendo sounds or looks simple in description, but is difficult to execute. "Straighten your back", "relax your shoulders", "make the sound of your shinai and your foot at the same time" are all easy to describe actions that take lots of practice to get right, and must be worked on continually.
                            Last edited by Neil Gendzwill; 3rd April 2004, 06:15 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Musha, tell your sensei to do kendo the normal way. Tsuki is part of kendo. People like your sensei makes the art to loose of it originality.
                              I goes like this. Not doing tsuki (to dangerous) ---> Not doing any hit at all exept Kote because its much more easier to rub your shinai on your opponent's Kote. ---> Kote Fencing.

                              I don't know near nothing in Kendo, you also do know nothing, so would you stop talking about how its easy to do something you don't know?

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