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  • upward/horizontal do strike

    I was wondering if stiking the do upwardly or horizontally can be given a point, like if i wanted to go straight for the do from gedan or waki, or do you always have to raise teh shinai above your head and strike downward for an attack? any information, rules, or experiences would be helpful

    thanx!

  • #2
    Originally posted by neko kenshi
    I was wondering if stiking the do upwardly or horizontally can be given a point, like if i wanted to go straight for the do from gedan or waki, or do you always have to raise teh shinai above your head and strike downward for an attack? any information, rules, or experiences would be helpful

    thanx!
    As long as you have ki-ken-tai icchi and proper ha-suji to yukou-datotsubu,
    it is legit point

    ....but if you strike upward or horizontal, no chance of having proper ha-suji
    (unless you are well trained 8-dan or Hai Hai )

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by neko kenshi
      I was wondering if stiking the do upwardly or horizontally can be given a point, like if i wanted to go straight for the do from gedan or waki, or do you always have to raise teh shinai above your head and strike downward for an attack? any information, rules, or experiences would be helpful

      thanx!
      I don't really know what your experience level is, but Gedan and Waki Gamae are two high level stances for shiai. And waki gamae is probably horrible for someone lower than Hachi-dan. And to get a do, it needs to come from up, not down, because to cut a person successfully with a do strike, you need a certain angle. So I seriously doubt a do from those stances would ever get a point. But it does sound interesting.

      Comment


      • #4
        Who uses waki gamae in shiai???

        Comment


        • #5
          i used to do these kind of do...upward and horizontal....the good thing is that you pass under the arm of your opponents so you can kind of hit whenever you feel like it....but, you'lll never have enough power to cut through someone with a do like that!!! you really need to learn to do the correct do!!

          also, i you try to do a do like that, someone will eventually tsuki you since you're wide open while doing a do like that

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kek
            i used to do these kind of do...upward and horizontal....the good thing is that you pass under the arm of your opponents so you can kind of hit whenever you feel like it....
            That wont count anyway, as for do to score, it has be a real opportunity (ie, opponent got his hand high).

            Jakob

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            • #7
              Originally posted by kek
              but, you'lll never have enough power to cut through someone with a do like that!!! you really need to learn to do the correct do!!
              Just one small point:

              In iaido, tameshigiri, etc, one does practice cutting horizontally (yokogiri) and upwards at an angle (gyaku kesa giri, aka kiriage). So one can cut with these angles in general.

              I am just a novice at iaido, but it seems to me that I have not seen a cut like kendo doh ever done outside of kendo. Doh, as we execute it, is too low to be kesagiri, although it is similar.

              So to me, it is odd not only that we perform doh as we do, but also that we do not teach at least a yokogiri style doh. But, it is what it is...

              Comment


              • #8
                No matter what your level is, you just have to repeat practicing

                My opinion is, really, no matter what your experience level is, or whatever dan you possess, you just have to keep on practicing the upward-horizontal do until you get it.

                Have seen many 3rd and 4th dan only start practicing suki only after they get 3rd and 4th dan.

                I bet their suki would just be as good and as accurate as their kote-men if they start practicing it at the very same day they start training kendo with big men.

                Don't forget in western fencing training, stabbing motions are regarded as basic tgechnic while slashing motion for sabre is praticed much later because they believe stabbing is much more easier than slashing. But is that? With kendo we say the opposite.

                I guess you will always find the things you practice everyday easier than the things you have rarely practiced.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Perhaps kendo is more "efficient"?

                  My humble opinion:

                  The reason justifies the Kendo doh I would presume is: when you cut all the way straight down then suddenly twist your blade to cut the doh, your blade will steadily move along the middel line during the main course if the cutting -- so its a side attack with controlling the middel.

                  Modern kendo technique distinquishes itself from the classical ones (the ryus) by making movements in a at least seemingly more efficeint fashion. Controlling the centre is said to be guiding principel for most of the movements.

                  Regards,

                  Kensin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanx for the advice everyone! for the sake of saying it, i wasn't intending to do these type of dos myself, but i was pondering what stance i would choose if i could not tell the opponents choice yet, and had to stick with it (i know that would never happen, but just for the sake of it) i decided if i had good enough technique i'd use hasso, as it combines the defense of chudan with the offense of jodan (just in my opinion), but the main weakness i could see was a do where u didn't have time to react (like an upward or horizontal strike). pointless post, but i just felt like clarifying my question for the sake of it.
                    thanx again

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I like ur "opponents are teachers in disguise. "

                      Hi,

                      I liked ur "opponents are teachers in disguise. "

                      There was a period when I started years ago I always approached my opponents with aggression.

                      Does not give me extra points though, especially when facing much more advanced kendokas, aggression does not pay.

                      Try to approach them now with an attitude of seeing them as some very prominent and very important guests I meet in a tsa-do ceremony. Funny thing is that I feel seeing things much more clearly with this kind of attitude, so much easier to get points.

                      Sorry for being fuzzy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just stick to chudan, dude

                        Just one more point, dude

                        I would stick to chudan.

                        Why? It is the simpliest and also at the same time, the most sophisticated "dan". So most of us would rather kiss (keep it sophisticatedly simply).

                        Mastering this piece enables you to easily swtich to jodan, gedan, hasso, tsuki, etc. later on. Becuase it combines both defense and offense. It enables u to better understand distance and timing for which no other stances would so easily enables u to when u first started.

                        And distance and timing is something much more important and yet more subtle and difficult to learn than what weapon you should hold and what stance you should take, really. One who controls these two factors is not to be defeated in any combat. And if he knows how to use surprise in addition, he wins at any time, in any place, with any weapon, against anybody.

                        So the argument is not that which dan has more strategic advantage. Cannot talk about strategic advantage without concening what is the situation of ur opponent. The argument is which dan enables u to learn better.

                        Very humbly, I feel able to say, chudan help me to learn better. chudan enables me to learn faster.

                        And by the way, u gain time to act or react and achieve right distance to strike or defend not with your stance, but with ur footwork, ur ashi sabaki.

                        So please focus on ur footwork, while pay moderate attention to stance. When ur ashi sabaki is correct, ur dan follows.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          just a couple of notes...

                          Hey guys, im new.. (dont hurt me :P )

                          Anyways, just a few tidbits about whats been said...

                          To HYUNA, about never seeing kendo style do being done outside of kendo... The closest i've seen in comparison was in a Shinkage-ryu kenjutsu dojo, where if an opponent were to raise his sword above his head in attack, you could counter by rushing forward and with your hands, hit your opponents hands farther above their head, then an almost identical kendo do cut would be made and after passing by the opponent after the first cut, spinning and cutting do again horizontally.

                          The way i was explained the practicality of do was that the initial hit to do would only break skin, but by rushing past your opponent on the opposite side of contact, you're sword would slide accross your opponents belly, thus opening it up.

                          and to KENSIN,

                          about the different ideologies of stabbing/cutting between japanese and european swordsman ship... my only guess could be because japanese swords use two hands and european only use one.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by neko kenshi
                            I was wondering if stiking the do upwardly or horizontally can be given a point, like if i wanted to go straight for the do from gedan or waki, or do you always have to raise teh shinai above your head and strike downward for an attack? any information, rules, or experiences would be helpful
                            thanx!
                            You will be called for high sticking.........

                            Orayakab, U.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by neko kenshi
                              I was wondering if stiking the do upwardly or horizontally can be given a point, like if i wanted to go straight for the do from gedan or waki, or do you always have to raise teh shinai above your head and strike downward for an attack? any information, rules, or experiences would be helpful
                              ive been taught that not all dou-uchi should come from above your head. you can make a smaller, faster version, that raises the shinai just the necessary. also, i've seen people being awarded ippon with an almost horizontal dou.

                              but upward attack? why should your shinai be that low in shiai anyway? unless you do flashy gedan kendo, and if you do flashy gedan kendo it probably means your opponent is much better and wiser than you and will end up beating you no matter how many weirdo waza you try on him/her

                              Comment

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