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  • Hasso and waki

    I use Chudan a lot. I like it. I Also use Jodan sometimes (useful) and Gedan very often (also useful).
    They have good advantages and a few disvantages, but I started to wonder about usefulness of Hasso and Waki.

    How can we use it in keiko or shiai?
    Are they useful?

  • #2
    so far from what i have heard hasso and waki cant really be useful in kendo. in kenjutsu it can but in kendo since you are going for the quick strike instead of a powerful blow its almost impossible to score a point with it. i was also wondering about that as well and i asked my sensei about it and he told me what i just told you. they are both equally cool stances.

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    • #3
      Waki Is very useful in kenjutsu but it really wouldn't be good in kendo... and as for Hasso??? I am new to this ^o^

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      • #4
        Waki and Hasso are elements of kendo are bits and pieces of old swordsmanship that have been retained to keep more traditional swordsmanship a part of kendo. Realistically they have no use in kendo, just only to preserve traditions. They do have their use in traditional swordsmanship, but in kendo using them would put you at a disadvantage.

        I don't know how acurate this is because I am recycling things I have heard in the past, but Hasso is useful for closed in spaces and for fighting multiple opponents. Don't ask me how as I am merely regurgitating random comments I have heard, although if that is wrong, I do deserve to be yelled at for passing on false info. My apologies if that is the case.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nodachi
          Waki and Hasso are elements of kendo are bits and pieces of old swordsmanship that have been retained to keep more traditional swordsmanship a part of kendo. Realistically they have no use in kendo, just only to preserve traditions. They do have their use in traditional swordsmanship, but in kendo using them would put you at a disadvantage.

          I don't know how acurate this is because I am recycling things I have heard in the past, but Hasso is useful for closed in spaces and for fighting multiple opponents. Don't ask me how as I am merely regurgitating random comments I have heard, although if that is wrong, I do deserve to be yelled at for passing on false info. My apologies if that is the case.
          If you dont mind my saying so: Each stance has its place, speaking from a Naginata perspective; waki can be used to draw your opponent into a false sense of distance and is suprisingly easy to turn into a good sayu (soku) men given the right timing. I have also used waki successfully in kendo gigeko (only the once however). I guess the only way to find out is to try out. Of course follow the instructions of your sempai if the use of such stances is forbidden in your dojo.

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          • #6
            The main difference I find with modern hasso and the old is that the old still cuts directly to shomen. I don't know where this one two action of bringing the weapon behind the head came from for kendo kata. If you cut directly up and forward from hasso gamae it will still come into the centreline.

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            • #7
              This is a little of the topic, but my sensei told me a little about when waki-gamae and hasso were used a lot, or more often then they are now. He was saying that people would go into waki-gamae, then reverse their right hand so that it pointed forward, and then do a doh strike, 'pulling it through the person's body' and going through like tobikomi-do. I found it very interesting, but that doh was apparently 'banned' as a legal strike a while ago. You can still fight from waki-gamae and hasso, though; just like the other three kamae.

              There are also katsugi stikes that are kind of similar to hasso, but not exactly.

              Anyways, I just thought I'd share this tid-bit of nifty kendo information.

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              • #8
                i have seen hasso in action, it looked kool but not so great. The guy hit a really good men, but the shimpan didnt give it to him (he also fell, but that doesnt count). I have never seen waki at its works, I think its useless. If you wanna see the video, it is the clip of 51st All Japan Kendo Championship.
                Here's the link:
                http://kendoshop.com/etc-images/sample1.wmv

                Note:
                The hasso part is somwher in the middle.
                There is also a part where there is Jodan in use.

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                • #9
                  [QUOTE=JoonShik]I have never seen waki at its works, I think its useless. /QUOTE]

                  O.o

                  Come on now! Waki is great! Ya just gotta know how to use it. If You ever take a form of kenjutsu you'll see that it is uber-useful, espacally when slashing upwards. Also, In kendo do you guys make a cutting motion while slashing???

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Charuzu
                    Also, In kendo do you guys make a cutting motion while slashing???
                    What??? o.O

                    Maybe it's just me, but those two things, "cutting motion" and "slashing," sound very similar to me. Maybe you could elaborate a little more as to what you mean?

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                    • #11
                      I have also tried Hasso once during a private training with my friend. Firstly i really thought that scoring with it would be impossible. But then i tried a Men Kaeshi Do and it just worked great. I dont know which stance, waki or hasso, was the defensive stance but i think hasso has the advantage that you already have your sword a bit higher, but not too high as in jodan( just imagine men kaeshi do with jodan) , to conter or to attack.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JoonShik
                        i have seen hasso in action, it looked kool but not so great. The guy hit a really good men, but the shimpan didnt give it to him (he also fell, but that doesnt count).
                        fell=no zanshin=no point.

                        That's not a good men, in my oppinion. I think the guy is a jodan player, that hasso is a part of his feinting.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pan-Chan
                          This is a little of the topic, but my sensei told me a little about when waki-gamae and hasso were used a lot, or more often then they are now. He was saying that people would go into waki-gamae, then reverse their right hand so that it pointed forward, and then do a doh strike, 'pulling it through the person's body' and going through like tobikomi-do. I found it very interesting, but that doh was apparently 'banned' as a legal strike a while ago. You can still fight from waki-gamae and hasso, though; just like the other three kamae.
                          I don't see what you describe have anything against the rule. Do you really sure it is banned?

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                          • #14
                            I read that hasso was more an observation stance, waki enables you to hide the length of your blade and execute directly an upward strike. Since the length of a shinai is the same for everybody it is not useful anymore.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pan-Chan
                              What??? o.O

                              Maybe it's just me, but those two things, "cutting motion" and "slashing," sound very similar to me. Maybe you could elaborate a little more as to what you mean?
                              I just wrote "slashing" becuse if I said "cut" you might be a bit confused. I guess that I just confused you more, huh? I'm really sorry.
                              As for the "Cutting motion" when you are executing a strive do you push the shinai fowards or backwords? For example, when cutting steak (mmmm cow) you don't just bring the knife down but you make a cutting motion. Cuz, I'm curious how you kendoka do it.

                              Sory about confusing you, I really am.

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