Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Kiai-ing

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by kenzan View Post





    i wish your wife and the postman all the happiness in the world.


    :d
    hahahahahahaha!!!!! Lol!!!!

    Comment


    • #32
      With shy people I ask motodachi to shout louder and longer than them. Like that they can try without to ear their voice too much.
      I also explain that we do really notice when there isn't kiai, but we do not stress them to much. Everthing come in time.

      Comment


      • #33
        A few cents:

        Kiai is pretty hard, especially for self conscious people, and people who have never yelled before in their lives (me). What got me, and the group of beginners I was in, through was:

        Just standing and yelling (from the stomach, not the throat) as hard as we could. I always thought it would have been better if every one had been told to close their eyes.

        Noticing that if you don't have any kiai you stick out. Badly.

        Noticing that everyone else (sempai) does it.

        Noticing that it is actually useful. It's a bit of a rush when you first realise that kiai can really pump you up and lessen your fear.

        Comment


        • #34
          This is going to be a dumb question but I always forget to ask after training or during. I swear sometimes my brain leaves me in a huff when I arrive at the dojo.

          Is it okay to have a range of different kiais?

          Comment


          • #35
            As long as you don't use the PIKACHUUUUUUUU kiai then testing different sounds is ok IMHO.

            Comment


            • #36
              If you heard your opponent pull a funny kiai, would you laugh?

              I'd laugh to intimidate the other person, then teach the guy how to do a REAL kiai. RAWR!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by imouto View Post
                This is going to be a dumb question but I always forget to ask after training or during. I swear sometimes my brain leaves me in a huff when I arrive at the dojo.

                Is it okay to have a range of different kiais?
                I would suggest that it isn't so important what vowel/consonant sound you make, as long as it isn't completely silly. What is important is how you produce your yell, and the way it makes you feel. The goal is to build your energy, and concentrate it in the right place.

                There are lots of posts in this forum about how to kiai. In summary, produce the sound by pushing out air from deep down in the belly. Try not to constrict your throat. If the kiai is scratchy or screechy sounding, it often means the throat is too tight. Try to sound a clear, piercing, note. My sensei has cautioned me to avoid letting the note gradually fall off in pitch and volume, it sounds weak to trail off in that way. Again, the goal is to build energy and focus it in the right place, not to dissipate it.

                Once you finish yelling and refill your lungs, you should feel energy in the form of muscle tautness in your lower abdomen and hips. The chest, shoulders, and arms should be relaxed. If, at the end of your yell, your arms and shoulders are still tense, it means you didn't manage to kiai correctly. Try again! We can't make a fast, powerful, strike unless we start with our energy in the right place.

                Once you understand the purpose, and the effect you should get, the sound you make is really up to you (except in kata, where "yah," and "toh," are customary).

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by ergo View Post
                  the card i've held in reserve, for the impossible case (and haven't had to use yet) is to work on kiai only. no swing, no footwork, just stand in chudan and kiai. if any one has tried this, i'd be interested to find out if it helped.
                  One of our senpai had us do this. That day we had very few beginners (6) and we happened to be standing in order of kiai-loudness. The two super loud guys on one end made the super shy three on the other end sound pretty bad (haha I happened to be right in the middle), so our senpai told us to stand in chudan and kiai. Subsequently, he told the two loud ones to shush and made the rest of us kiai until we improved slightly. As a person with a high tolerance for mortification, I was only mildly uncomfortable, but I could tell the three shy ones wanted to crawl in a hole....

                  I think an easier way to do it might be to space the loud folks out among the shy ones and then inform the class that everybody's kiai is too weak. Then maybe proceed with unending suburi until kiai is satisfactory? (or for evil version, endless hayasuburi) In my opinion, having an enthusiastic person next to me and the frustration with endless suburi would eventually draw out a louder kiai even if I'm shy.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I wish there was more training for Kiai, at first I was pretty shy about doing it and to me it sounded too much of a Warcry like you see in Full Metal Jacket, but it's becoming or sounding more Japanese to me now, it's tone is different, I would like it to be a lot louder through, very loud. :P

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by IronWarrior View Post
                      I wish there was more training for Kiai, at first I was pretty shy about doing it and to me it sounded too much of a Warcry like you see in Full Metal Jacket, but it's becoming or sounding more Japanese to me now, it's tone is different, I would like it to be a lot louder through, very loud. :P
                      Try this.

                      www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaoPNiWnHPs

                      Use your diaphragm rather than your throat to project your kiai. If you have any friends who are classically trained singers, ask them how they project their voice. If you're hoarse by the end of practice then you're doing it wrong.

                      This may also be of help.

                      http://www.kendo-guide.com/KendoGuid...etter_017.html
                      Last edited by ShinKenshi; 11th May 2011, 02:45 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        What really helped me was the advanced kendokas who shout much louder and longer than you do. But what could be useful too is alsways smiling, so that she feels at ease and confident, and also suggesting you shout at the same time (1-2-3-SHOUT!) which is fun and easier too =)

                        Hope all goes well !

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I'm a kumdo girl but I'd like to weigh in on this. I'm guilty of pitiful kihap and it's something I really struggle with. For me it is a confidence issue. I just can't get over how unnatural it feels to scream my head off at somebody who is a billion times better than me and follow up my primal yell with really ill-performed kumdo. In my head I know the power of my kihap should not and is not at all proportional to my actual skill in kumdo. However, I find that kumdo requires so much of me physically and mentally that I very quickly fall back into default mode which is quiet kihap.

                          These are some things that have helped:

                          1) Some people will do the following exercise with me: They kihap and I kihap after them but louder. At first, they kiai relatively quietly and progressively get louder and, obviously, I do the same.

                          2) Understanding. My weak kihap seems to bother lower ranking students more than the higher ranking people. My "kwanjangnim", for example, intuitively understands that I am not really choosing to defy him or disrespect kumdo... but it is truly a deeply rooted issue that will work itself out with time. He kindly reminds me that my kihap is not powerful enough but does not make me feel ashamed or embarrassed.

                          3) Competition. Kwanjangnim made me compete in a tournament and now I know why. At first it seemed completely ridiculous. I am very, very low level. I expected to be out within seconds but I hung in there and realized I might have a change at scoring. At one point (I suppose the other girl was very quiet too) one of the judges stopped us and said we were both hitting legit points but they were not counting because we were too quiet. I screamed my head off, scored son-mok and maintained, what I felt, was a natural kihap for the rest of the match. Also, I notice in practice that a more natural kihap seems to emerge when I'm sparring with people at my own level.

                          Here is what hasn't helped me:

                          1) Frustration. I was practicing with a mid-level, non black belt. I was doing kihap but, clearly it was too quiet for him. (It was my first week or two in armor. Kihap was the least of my problems.) He looked at me with disgust and was like, "You realize kihap is not optional, right?" This just made me feel like poo. I understand his frustration but... not so helpful.

                          2) Putting me on the spot. A very well meaning visiting instructor made me do the exercise I mentioned BUT... he made me do it when everybody else was quiet (I have no idea what they were doing) and he told me what to say. Of course I did it, but only out of respect to him. It really just made me uncomfortable and did not particularly help me develop my kihap.

                          A

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            This somewhat old thread has been good to read. I'm glad it was brought back from the dead. Lately I have struggled with feeling like my kiai is getting weaker despite my trying to be louder, and I'm frequently hoarse after class. Some good ideas in here.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by alta View Post
                              1) Some people will do the following exercise with me: They kihap and I kihap after them but louder. At first, they kiai relatively quietly and progressively get louder and, obviously, I do the same.
                              This is something I do with my kohai if I feel their kiai could be much louder and more powerful, especially during jigeiko (sparring). I'll stop, tell them that whenever someone gives a strong kiai, they have to do one better. We separate and I'll kiai at them and if I don't feel they've responded with a good, strong one, I'll kiai again but louder and longer. This usually causes them to get pretty close to matching mine.

                              Originally posted by alta View Post
                              2) Understanding. My weak kihap seems to bother lower ranking students more than the higher ranking people. My "kwanjangnim", for example, intuitively understands that I am not really choosing to defy him or disrespect kumdo... but it is truly a deeply rooted issue that will work itself out with time. He kindly reminds me that my kihap is not powerful enough but does not make me feel ashamed or embarrassed.
                              This is how reminders should be given.

                              Originally posted by alta View Post
                              3) Competition. Kwanjangnim made me compete in a tournament and now I know why. At first it seemed completely ridiculous. I am very, very low level. I expected to be out within seconds but I hung in there and realized I might have a change at scoring. At one point (I suppose the other girl was very quiet too) one of the judges stopped us and said we were both hitting legit points but they were not counting because we were too quiet. I screamed my head off, scored son-mok and maintained, what I felt, was a natural kihap for the rest of the match. Also, I notice in practice that a more natural kihap seems to emerge when I'm sparring with people at my own level.
                              The more you spar, the more natural it will become.

                              Originally posted by alta View Post
                              Here is what hasn't helped me:

                              1) Frustration. I was practicing with a mid-level, non black belt. I was doing kihap but, clearly it was too quiet for him. (It was my first week or two in armor. Kihap was the least of my problems.) He looked at me with disgust and was like, "You realize kihap is not optional, right?" This just made me feel like poo. I understand his frustration but... not so helpful.
                              Consider the source. If he wasn't dan level yet, then it isn't his place to doll out advice.

                              Originally posted by alta View Post
                              2) Putting me on the spot. A very well meaning visiting instructor made me do the exercise I mentioned BUT... he made me do it when everybody else was quiet (I have no idea what they were doing) and he told me what to say. Of course I did it, but only out of respect to him. It really just made me uncomfortable and did not particularly help me develop my kihap.
                              Unfortunately there will be times where you'll have to be on the spot and the only one making noise. Occasionally we'll form lines and practice a couple hundred men strikes and normally two or three senior members will count while every one else kiai's but lately my sensei has started choosing lower level individuals to do the counting. This is to get them used to being on their own and more often than not, it translates to better kiai later on.

                              Here's something that may help you as well. If where you train you have someone leading warm ups and the rest of you count as a group, try counting as loud as you can. I was taught early on that counting during warm ups is a perfect time to practice your kiai. Of course you won't be doing the same kind as while you're sparring, but it helps you get used to projecting your voice. Eventually you'll be able to produce kiai so loud and powerful you'll hear it echoing off the walls (if you're in a dojo that's conducive to echos that is).

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ShinKenshi View Post
                                Here's something that may help you as well. If where you train you have someone leading warm ups and the rest of you count as a group, try counting as loud as you can. I was taught early on that counting during warm ups is a perfect time to practice your kiai. Of course you won't be doing the same kind as while you're sparring, but it helps you get used to projecting your voice. Eventually you'll be able to produce kiai so loud and powerful you'll hear it echoing off the walls (if you're in a dojo that's conducive to echos that is).
                                This.

                                A few years ago we got a new young kenshi, with a very quiet (some might say pitiful) kiai. After months of encouragement one of our sensei tried something new during warmups. Instead of having the senior non-sensei present lead the warmup, he had our young kenshi lead them. At first it was so difficult to hear him that the only way I knew what to do was because we have been doing the same warmups in the same order ever since I joined the dojo. But you know what? Eventually his kiai got louder and stronger. Now it is quite presentable. Could still be better, but far better than he was. In fact, it worked so well, I'm thinking of trying out the same thing with some other newbies that could use the help.

                                Of course, you could always practice it the way I used to . . . trying to out-kiai my Harley Davidson on the open road . . . at least until that day the bug . . . well, never mind.

                                RC_Kenshi

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X