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keiko with the opposite sex

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  • #31
    I like this thread.

    Sensei and I sometimes talk about taiatari and men who use it to throw weight around. I know that Sensei can knock me back a good yard with (what I imagine to be) minimal weight behind the push. I cannot even budge the man. So I know that in a shiai - were I to be in one with my current loooooooooooow skills - an opponent who can throw some weight into their push would probably push me out of bounds with ease. My response is to work on leg and core strengthening and to learn to better sink down my weight so that I am not so easily pushed. But it does not mean that throwing weight around in taiatari would be unnecessary, and it is the unnecessary nature that would make the opponent seem more like a bully to me. Someone who is much larger in size could easily resist me in taiatari (since I have next to no pushing power right now) and capitalize the moment I make a mistake while attempting to affect him, because I so would. Granted, learning how to cope with people who throw their weight around is something that we also discuss in practice. So I guess coming up against those people can be just as valuable.

    As to being insulted ... I dunno ... I am coming to realize that it may have more to do with the approach. I think at this point I would only be insulted if someone were to hold back unnecessarily, and I think I would feel insulted no matter the gender at that point. Being challenged - even significantly so - is good and holding back unnecessarily says that someone thinks I cannot rise to that challenge. Maybe I would not be able to the first time. But over time? Who knows for certain. And I think that comes down to what people have written in this thread about holding back versus contributing to learning experiences and such. But holding back necessarily (which is what I think is at the heart of the article from Doctor Hondo that someone linked to) is fine because it does contribute to the learning experience. Then it just falls on me would be figuring out how to know the difference between the two when I step up to practice and - should I not be able to that - whatever insult I feel falls on nothing but my own pride, and that is no reason to get pissed at someone. In an actual tournament though, do the best you can for sure. Once I can begin competing, I know that I would rather win or lose based upon my own merits and skills, rather than win or lose based on what someone else believes those merits and skills to be.

    I think I's mellowed.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Bokushingu View Post
      I could see it really being a problem for women that want to compete in the men's division. That's why when i jigeiko with a girl i ask them before we start, "Are you planning on fighting in the men's division?" i
      In my country there is no women's division except for the nationals. So if I want to participate in tournaments, I have to fight against men.
      I have one (male) kendo pal who will fight me in jigeiko like he would in shiai if I ask him. But imagine your progress if you only ever get to fight one single person.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by krys View Post
        No, it refers to a certain stage in one's kendo development.

        Do you want to talk about something specific or just had have some spirit?
        Nope, my observations over 15 or so years. Yes, there is a crash, bang, wallop stage of kendo, but you usually do find it in men who think kendo is a martial art for beating up on others, and haven't gone through a similar stage in another art.
        I have also seen higher grades (5/6 dan) doing "the berserker". So, where am I going, I don't know? Just starting to rant.

        But getting back to the thread, there seem to be many ladies who want to get stuck in and have a good bash. In that case, it would be easier to just let loose on your partner so they can give as good as they get.
        That is, for me, the best way to signal that the gloves are off and we can get it on.
        No signal, a guy will normally air on the side of caution with a women. Of course, in shiai, there is no caution, and it shouldn't be expected, though, in my opinion, and maybe because we English are gentlemen afterall, manners would be at the forefront of conflict? . . . or not perhaps?



        Where are the bloody icons when you need one!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Kenzan View Post
          Little known Kendo rule fact:
          Bonus points awarded if you make Bokushingu cry.
          oh wow they giving out points for that? lol Darn this guy got bonus points for making me cry 1:30 into the 4th Round. Pulled Groin Muscle

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          • #35
            apparently, my computer didn't like that video i was posting in the above post. My computer crashed before i could finish the post...surprised it's there.

            But i was going to add: No Women's Division? Do a lot of women still compete where you compete, IndigoGirl? It must be really rough in the Kyu division where alot of men do rely on their physical attributes...but you can overcome by not trying to match their physical strength. Before I made it to Yudansha, I watched a little 100 pd girl dominate the 1-2 Dan Men's divsion for 2 years: first place everytime she competed. I never saw anyone able to do a taitari on her--she was nimble as the spiderman. I'm glad she ranked up and out of the division when i entered--she would've crushed me. ^_^

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Tenchu44 View Post
              Nope, my observations over 15 or so years. Yes, there is a crash, bang, wallop stage of kendo, but you usually do find it in men who think kendo is a martial art for beating up on others, and haven't gone through a similar stage in another art.
              I have also seen higher grades (5/6 dan) doing "the berserker". So, where am I going, I don't know? Just starting to rant.
              that post was full of derp.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by ender84567 View Post
                that post was full of derp.
                "derp?"

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Tenchu44 View Post
                  Yes, there is a crash, bang, wallop stage of kendo, but you usually do find it in men who think kendo is a martial art for beating up on others,
                  I find it in ppl who are taught to attack and attack for now. Time for thinking is to come later.
                  I have also seen higher grades (5/6 dan) doing "the berserker".
                  Maybe we just have different kendo experiences.

                  Of course, in shiai, there is no caution, and it shouldn't be expected, though, in my opinion, and maybe because we English are gentlemen afterall, manners would be at the forefront of conflict? . . . or not perhaps?
                  Even in shiai most men play women in a different, more cautious way, it's expected of them to. And I do not think it applies only to English.

                  But just as you, I do not know where I am going.

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                  • #39
                    Touch.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Tenchu44 View Post
                      "derp?"
                      meaning you have no clue what you are talking about..... again....

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ender84567 View Post
                        meaning you have no clue what you are talking about..... again....
                        Indeed. Valid as always .

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                        • #42
                          It's strange because I took all of the comments from this thread and thought through the various concepts being discussed (e.g. not relying on physical strength, being less aggressive, not being a berserker, being aware of your partner, trying to make keiko enjoyable for your partner as well) and I suppose I became a little hesitant when doing keiko drills with my female partner last night. Sensei must have recognized this because he criticzed the fact that I didn't hit her when I had an opportunity -- she missed men and continued to suriashi past me, I followed up, raised my shinai as if to strike and waited for her to turn around before telling her that I could have hit her, so she needs to use zanshin. Again, I think it's a catch 22, you're either too aggressive or not aggressive enough.

                          I appreciate the discussion though since it keeps this topic at the forefront of my mind when I enter the dojo.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Bokushingu View Post
                            oh wow they giving out points for that? lol Darn this guy got bonus points for making me cry 1:30 into the 4th Round. Pulled Groin Muscle
                            Wow, thanks for sharing. It would have been a little more on topic if your opponent was a woman! I cringed just watching that video man, it looked painful. I liked how your opponent gave you a couple pats on the back to comfort you toward the end.

                            I hope you healed up from that.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Bokushingu View Post
                              oh wow they giving out points for that? lol Darn this guy got bonus points for making me cry 1:30 into the 4th Round. Pulled Groin Muscle
                              I know what you mean. I pulled my groin muscle once or twice myself over the years.


                              Which is why they took away my library card.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Bokushingu View Post
                                oh wow they giving out points for that? lol Darn this guy got bonus points for making me cry 1:30 into the 4th Round. Pulled Groin Muscle
                                That looked like it was pretty painful Dave.

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