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keiko with the opposite sex

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  • #46
    hahaha I was stupid enough to fight to the Semi-finals with it. Lost in the SF... just too much pain to move forward. But yeah it wasn't against a woman. But it was a case of trying to use too much power...I remember thinking i wanted to chop him in half & slam into him, and stun him so i can get a quick point or taitari him again out of bounds(we both had 1 hansoku). Judges said my pain scream was much more frightening & scary then my Kiai--LOL.

    I understand how you feel, Chozen. with me, i usually get dominated in Jigeiko with women because i'm onguard of throwing a strike that may cause them pain and unneccesary fear in the future. my intensity does not change: i use the same amount of seme & zanshin as i do against male players. But waza like my Katate-Kote and Morote-Do may miss and really hurt them; so if i throw them, i throw them slow and when i have a ridiculously clear oppertunity. You can use taitari against them but dissipate your force by rolling off of them when you hit.

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    • #47
      If your katate-kote is hitting that hard, that's a problem to fix in general.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by CH0ZEN View Post
        It's strange because I took all of the comments from this thread and thought through the various concepts being discussed (e.g. not relying on physical strength, being less aggressive, not being a berserker, being aware of your partner, trying to make keiko enjoyable for your partner as well) and I suppose I became a little hesitant when doing keiko drills with my female partner last night. Sensei must have recognized this because he criticzed the fact that I didn't hit her when I had an opportunity -- she missed men and continued to suriashi past me, I followed up, raised my shinai as if to strike and waited for her to turn around before telling her that I could have hit her, so she needs to use zanshin. Again, I think it's a catch 22, you're either too aggressive or not aggressive enough.

        I appreciate the discussion though since it keeps this topic at the forefront of my mind when I enter the dojo.
        I don't think anyone was suggesting that you be less aggressive, or pass up a good chance to hit your opponent cleanly. Aggression is not the same as physical force. Aggression is constantly working to establish a big enough advantage to make a clean strike. Keep the pressure on, force them to attack or defend when they're not ready. Suppress their attempts to attack, or use them to make counterattacks (oji-waza). Don't let them rest, or plan, or regroup, just hunt them relentlessly from "hajime" to "yame." That kind of aggression rattles people, breaks them down mentally, and leads them to make mistakes. It does not require bashing them with your shinai, or slamming your body into them.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill View Post
          If your katate-kote is hitting that hard, that's a problem to fix in general.
          It's tricky.
          I was taught when I started jodan, that if you missed with katate-kote, then the shinai should hit the floor. (Which also fits into the 1-cut-1-kill philosophy).
          That was the speed/power range you were looking at. Granted, later you develop some tenouchi,but physics are still against you. You literally whip the shinai down, from above your head and you have less than half the force available to stop it. It will travel much faster than your regular chudan kote-cut and there's a lot less power available to control the tenouchi, so it simply will hit a lot harder.
          This actually developed into a problem for me, as I ended up constricting the force so much, in order to avoid causing pain to people, that it became an in-effective attack..and that became my default katate-kote attack. (ie a worthless one).
          It changed after I moved to Vancouver, as while the club was smaller, there was also a lot less junior people and for the most part, people who had been doing kendo long enough to have their wrists/forearms desensitized, that I could start practicing it at full speed again without worrying (too much) about missing/using too much force.

          I've received katate-kote attack from very experienced jodan players and they have all, without exception, been very hard.

          Again, this is fine, if you are practicing against experienced people, but when you get John/Jane with little experience and skinny arms, you will hurt them and this is what I think Bokushingu is getting at.

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          • #50
            Thanks for explaining for me, Jshmidt. I couldn't explain it properly. I was curious, Jschmidt, would you use katate kote against a female or older male player? Neil, one of my Jodan sempai throws Katate so hard he cracked one of those hard plastic tsuba. whenever i play him Ai jodan, my wrist are usually numb afterwards. lol Another point about Katate Kote, if you don't fire that thing with explosive power, you'll miss the very small window to score. you will also be easier to counter & knocked off balance.

            After getting beat up by Itokazu, he gave me a great tip with controling the power of Katate kote. He told me to snap it back up the moment it hits the target. It seems to be working well for me. I asked the Kenshi i played in this video @ 3:20 seconds did it hit to hard and he said no. I was wondering cause it seemed to me it hit really hard even though i snapped it back up.

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            • #51
              Bokushingu or Jschmidt,
              Regarding kote, do you guys execute it the way it's described in the jodan.pdf doc on halifax kendo website?
              here it is
              I'm thinking in particular of the description on page 16, fig 1.9. Is this document outdated? I can't tell clearly from the angle in your vid but it looks straighter than that document suggests.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by turboyoshi View Post
                Bokushingu or Jschmidt,
                Regarding kote, do you guys execute it the way it's described in the jodan.pdf doc on halifax kendo website?
                here it is
                I'm thinking in particular of the description on page 16, fig 1.9. Is this document outdated? I can't tell clearly from the angle in your vid but it looks straighter than that document suggests.
                That's exactly how i throw it. My other jodan Sensei, who is also Ralutin's Sensei, taught me that way. I heard that Chiba Sensei throws it that way also--i know i use Chiba Sensei's whip style in both my Katate men & kote. the thing is, Like JSchmidt Sensei explained, you can generate a tremendous amount of power in it...that power may be too much when jigeiko with women or really small guys or much older Sensei. When i jigeiko with the older sensei or Kyus or youth(even teenagers)or women that don't compete in men's division, i use Chudan.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by CH0ZEN View Post
                  ....... keeps this topic at the forefront of my mind when I enter the dojo.
                  Found your problem.

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