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  • Formal Wear

    Evening All,
    Well last week I was told that by the next grading seminar I should be ready for my first dan,
    I have been told however that I would need to purchase a formal uniform,
    As a dangai I'm permitted to wear a black montsuki and black or black/grey striped hakama,
    I was wondering if anyone had some recommendations for where I should purchase mine, I could get one through my sensei for about $450 (300 for the montsuki and 150 for the hakama) but I don't know where they come from and he told me he'd never actually purchased from the club before.
    I'm thinking I might maybe get a striped hakama since I'v got a bit of extra money in my "Budo Budget" I know Aoi-budogu looks to have a nice montsuki, but as much as I'v supported them in the past, they'v become hopeless with shipping latley.
    I was also hoping mayeb to get a haori (right term for formal jacket?) for the winter, it gets rather cold here in burwood and I was hoping to get some attire thats still traditional to wear to dojo,
    Let me know what you reccomend.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Scully; 5th March 2012, 08:22 AM. Reason: forgot something :)

  • #2
    Hi,
    I suppose everyone runs their gradings different, but for yudansha (dan ranks) below say, 5th dan, I've never seen anyone wear the formal kamon hakama that you're describing. I believe the standard in the ZNKF would be a standard black or white hakama, depending on your style of study. Usually those formal wear are reserved for upper dan ranks at demonstrations and gradings. I have never seen a 1dan applicant wear one. Frankly, I don't think it would even be appropriate at all.
    I recommend you save your money, clean and press your uniform, and do the best you can on your testing.
    Brad

    Comment


    • #3
      If you're going to spend multiple hundred, might be worth asking some local tailors - you could get something custom made just for you in that range by asking around. The patterns seem relatively linear.

      Han-juban, kimono, and haori can be deceptively warm when layered. I don't know about winter, but the set I have took the bite right out of a late Fall day. The sleeves can be tricky, but if you train in kimono you already know that.

      Comment


      • #4
        I concur completely with Nukitsuke on this and is certainly different to what I understand, or at least it is in ZNKR. Formal uniform and montsuki are only for 6 Dan and above shinsa and embu. Having said that, if your sensei says that is what is expected, then so be it.

        Comment


        • #5
          What we wear is not a uniform, it is normal everyday traditional Japanese clothing. For formal occasions people of higher rank will wear more formal dress, again, standard traditional Japanese clothing. It is not a uniform.

          My understanding is that up to 5th dan you are still learning how to do the kata, above 5th dan you should be able to do the kata and so a performance is a presentation of iaido, not of your understanding (or lack of) how to do it. This is why in arts that use coloured belts black, the symbolic colour of ignorance, is worn for grades up to 5th dan.

          Gradings up to 5th dan, therefore, as a demonstration of one's own learning are not embu of the kata, but of the student, and should be presented in keiko gi (training clothes). Embu above 5th dan should be embu of the kata themselves and are presented to the highest aesthetic level possible, which includes Montsuki hakama. How it is cut, how it is worn, every aspect of overall appearance adds or detracts from the level of presentation of the embu.

          Other groups may have less strict or formalised approaches to the use of clothing, but if you have been told to wear a "uniform" whatever that might mean, be sure you are buying the right thing.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm going out on a limb here to make the assumption that Scully is in the ZNIR, which seems to allow for montsuki at their shinsa for all ranks.

            Comment


            • #7
              AFAIK, ZNIR does not require montsuki for kyu-grades, only dan-grades.

              Comment


              • #8
                Peter makes an excellent assessment of what is going on... although you will be expected to be 'neat and tidy', the emphasis is on what you do, rather than how you look, at this stage in your iai.
                Montsuki for shodan sounds a bit over the top, but maybe your sensei is trying to save a bit of cash for later... this stuff is best kept for 'show only' as normal wear and tear will wreck it in a couple of years, and the formal stuff is expensive. Make sure you get what you need, it could be an expensive misunderstanding otherwise...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michael Hodge View Post
                  I'm going out on a limb here to make the assumption that Scully is in the ZNIR, which seems to allow for montsuki at their shinsa for all ranks.
                  According to Scully's profile, he is in ZNIR. http://www.seishinkan-iaido.org/pages/dojos.html
                  @ryoma, are you saying ZNIR requires montsuki and fancy dress for dan tests?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sirius1906 View Post
                    According to Scully's profile, he is in ZNIR. http://www.seishinkan-iaido.org/pages/dojos.html
                    @ryoma, are you saying ZNIR requires montsuki and fancy dress for dan tests?
                    Originally posted by sirius1906 View Post
                    According to Scully's profile, he is in ZNIR. http://www.seishinkan-iaido.org/pages/dojos.html
                    @ryoma, are you saying ZNIR requires montsuki and fancy dress for dan tests?
                    We don't actually have Kyu grading, there is only dangai (nodan) then straight to show dan,
                    We have a fairly strict uniform policy,

                    Normal Trainging uniform:
                    dangai - nidan is white iaigi and black hakama (white obi for dangai, black for dan grades) and tabi with permission from your sensei.
                    Past nidan you may wear a black iaidogi.

                    Formal Attire:
                    Dangai - 5th dan black monstuki and mon, black or black/grey striped hakama white tabi (same with the obi as above)
                    Past 5th dan (i'm a tad sketchy on this one) you may wear a dark colour of your choice still white tabi, i think past 7th you can wear what you please,
                    I'll check that a bit later, but thats the basic uniform layout.

                    I'm not sure if it changes per dojo, i'm not awfully sure about anything outside of my eishin ryu dojo,

                    I'm not surea bout other styles, but I have been told by sensei that it is expected for me to have full formal attire.

                    Thanks

                    Scully

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A lot of the "formal" men's kimono in Japan (e.g. for weddings), especially at the lower price range do not have divided hakama. Normally it's not a problem as most people wearing these are not performing an embu. They just need to look all right when sitting and standing (in fact, seiza isn't even a given). So best be sure it has a machitaka-bakama (horse-riding type hakama) before buying.

                      Be aware that getting into one of these is about 10x more difficult than your normal keiko-gi and hakama. In order to keep all the bits in place looking crisp throughout the day, there are a lot of hidden himo tied very tightly. If you don't have a beer belly you will probably also need to wrap a towel around your waist, something which doesn't actually come with the set (bathroom face towel will usually do).

                      These days you can also get a more modern look with a gradient hakama like these below (again, these might not be divided). With these I bet you'd make a fantastic impression for your embu/grading!

                      http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ntuki_s_td001/
                      http://item.rakuten.co.jp/marino/10001498/
                      http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ontuki_s_s001/
                      http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ntuki_s_bl010/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tozando has very nice montsuki and hakama for fairly reasonable price. I have been wearing theirs for formal occassions for several years now. Nihonzashi has a very good deal on a decent quality formal set which includes haori ... Nihonzashi Formal Uniform Package
                        I've seen a number of people wearing this set at Tai Kai and embu.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dillon View Post
                          These days you can also get a more modern look with a gradient hakama like these below (again, these might not be divided). With these I bet you'd make a fantastic impression for your embu/grading!

                          http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ntuki_s_td001/
                          http://item.rakuten.co.jp/marino/10001498/
                          http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ontuki_s_s001/
                          http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ntuki_s_bl010/
                          These are insanely cool looking. Maybe I can talk my wife into going to Japan to get our vows renewed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dillon View Post
                            A lot of the "formal" men's kimono in Japan (e.g. for weddings), especially at the lower price range do not have divided hakama. Normally it's not a problem as most people wearing these are not performing an embu. They just need to look all right when sitting and standing (in fact, seiza isn't even a given). So best be sure it has a machitaka-bakama (horse-riding type hakama) before buying.

                            Be aware that getting into one of these is about 10x more difficult than your normal keiko-gi and hakama. In order to keep all the bits in place looking crisp throughout the day, there are a lot of hidden himo tied very tightly. If you don't have a beer belly you will probably also need to wrap a towel around your waist, something which doesn't actually come with the set (bathroom face towel will usually do).

                            These days you can also get a more modern look with a gradient hakama like these below (again, these might not be divided). With these I bet you'd make a fantastic impression for your embu/grading!

                            http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ntuki_s_td001/
                            http://item.rakuten.co.jp/marino/10001498/
                            http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ontuki_s_s001/
                            http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...ntuki_s_bl010/
                            They are great,
                            I love this one
                            http://item.rakuten.co.jp/bridal-pre...montuki_bg001/
                            I think that would make a very good first impression for grading, not sure how sensei would feel about it though, I will have to ask him,
                            If only I could read it, it looks vietnamese to me for some reason, can't be sure though.
                            If someone could translate for me it would be uch appreciate it, as google translate has no idea whats goin on.
                            For 19,800 Yen (227.355 AUD) that seemse really good, especially considering a few of the montsuki I was looking at where about $300 themselves, unless I'v gotten it wrong, but I think the exchange is about 1AUD=87Yen.
                            again if someone could translate for me it would be much appreciated.

                            Scully

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sirius1906 View Post
                              According to Scully's profile, he is in ZNIR. http://www.seishinkan-iaido.org/pages/dojos.html
                              @ryoma, are you saying ZNIR requires montsuki and fancy dress for dan tests?
                              If this is actually Scully's dojo then this is not ZNIR but DNIR (Dai Nippon Iaido Renmei). The english translation of "All Japan Iaido Federation" might be misleading.

                              I do not know what you mean by "fancy dress". AFAIK the requirement for dan-grade testing is to wear a Gi with O-sode (the big sleeves). I am not clear if mon are required. Sorry for my use of "montsuki" as it implies a Gi with mon, that was not my intention. Just a Gi with big sleeves.
                              Hakama is definitely not a grey striped one for lower dan-grades. A normal black hakama is just fine.
                              But again, I have no idea what DNIR requirements are. These rakuten offers might be nice looking but certainly NOT meant for Iai practice or even grading...

                              Comment

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