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  • #31
    Originally posted by Wraith View Post
    Our Shinken are made specifically for Iaido practice. They are slimmed down in their profile and they have as much material removed from the groove as possible, to reduce the weight and improve the balance, making them most suitable for long practice sessions and the preferences of most Iaidoka in the modern day market.
    As stated, these are intended for iaido practice, and have material taken out of them to reduce weight for long practices, and hence shouldn't be use for tameshigiri. It is a leap of logic to say that because of that, shinken with bohi should not be used for tameshigiri. I'm sure these are fine swords, but quite frankly, they are not shinken in the traditional sense -- proper raw material, folding, tempering, etc. As Rennis noted, he has seen tameshigiri performed regularly in Japan with swords with bohi.

    Going back to the original poster's comments, if you want a sword with a live blade for iaido practice, that's cool. But just realize that this is not a shinken in the traditional sense. Also, if you want to do tameshigiri, you don't necessarily need a bona fide shinken. You just have to make sure it's made well enough to withstand tameshigiri. And if you DO get a bona fide shinken for tameshigiri, whether it has a bohi or not is irrelevant.

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    • #32
      Op, what about bugei.com or swordstore.com ? A bit on the wrong pricetag maybe.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Halcyon View Post
        they are not shinken in the traditional sense -- proper raw material, folding, tempering, etc.....
        That would depend on your point of view. Not everyone has such a rigid interpretation of what constitutes a shinken.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Wraith View Post
          That would depend on your point of view. Not everyone has such a rigid interpretation of what constitutes a shinken.
          Certainly. I readily concede that point.

          But I would also posit that this rigid interpretation of what constitutes a shinken in the traditional sense is the one shared by many experienced kenshi. At least that has been my personal experience in my limited time doing iaido.

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          • #35
            I saw nothing restrictive in Paul's interpretation of what shinken are. There are traditional shinken; any nihonto would fall into that category, and then there are Japanese-styled swords with live edges as what seems to be the case with the Nine Circles offerings. Shinken denote live blades, whether those blades are traditionally constructed by Japanese swordsmiths or not.

            In fact, I believe many Japanese consider even non-Japanese styled swords shinken provided they have a live edge. Someone could correct me on that if I'm mistaken on this point.

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            • #36
              Shinken denote live blades, whether those blades are traditionally constructed by Japanese swordsmiths or not.
              That is the generally accepted definition among practitioners today. Collectors still adhere to the old definition wherein a shinken is a traditionally made Japanese sword, as opposed to machine made gunto. Gotta remember that it wasn't very long ago when those were your only two choices. It's only been about 15 years since Hanwei introduced the first Chinese made Japanese style swords. Many of the old farts will still adhere to the old definition also, since it's hard for old guys to change.

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              • #37
                All nihonto are swords. Not all swords are nihonto. All shinken are swords. All swords might be shinken. All nihonto are shinken. Not all shinken are nihonto. Something like that???

                If you want bo-hi, go for it. It makes a really cool sound. I don't have a bo-hi in the swords I use regularly, and don't have problem getting through multiple-hour classes. I do have a massive wakizashi on the way, that one has a bo-hi but it wasn't my decision. If you make a mistake in cutting something, there's a chance you can hurt your sword. How much you hurt it is contingent on a lot of factors. My buddy has a Bugei dragonfly that bends if you look at it funny. No bo-hi.

                When I got started, even using a bokken for prolonged periods was tiring. Seiza is uncomfortable too. You get over it.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Eight View Post
                  I'm fairly sure that my iaito isn't an unusual size so I think that we must be measuring things differently. I'll have to get in touch with whatever supplier I end up going with to confirm the way that they measure things since I basically just want a tsuka the same size as the one I have.
                  As long as your instructor is fine with this, that's ok. You did ask for advice online which usually denotes not being sure of something

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                    All nihonto are swords. Not all swords are nihonto. All shinken are swords. All swords might be shinken. All nihonto are shinken. Not all shinken are nihonto. Something like that???
                    I posted this before, but I'm adding the 'kazarito' (wallhanger) element :

                    All nihonto are shinken.
                    Some shinken are nihonto.
                    Some nihonto are iaito.
                    Some shinken are iaito.
                    Most iaito are mogito.
                    No mogito are nihonto.
                    Some mogito are shinken*
                    No mogito are shinken**
                    Some mogito are iaito.
                    Some kazarito are shinken*
                    Some shinken are kazarito*
                    No nihonto are kazarito.
                    No iaito are (or should be) kazarito.
                    Most mogito are kazarito.

                    * Outside Japan.
                    ** Inside Japan.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Michael Hodge View Post
                      I posted this before, but I'm adding the 'kazarito' (wallhanger) element :

                      All nihonto are shinken.
                      Some shinken are nihonto.
                      Some nihonto are iaito.
                      Some shinken are iaito.
                      Most iaito are mogito.
                      No mogito are nihonto.
                      Some mogito are shinken*
                      No mogito are shinken**
                      Some mogito are iaito.
                      Some kazarito are shinken*
                      Some shinken are kazarito*
                      No nihonto are kazarito.
                      No iaito are (or should be) kazarito.
                      Most mogito are kazarito.

                      * Outside Japan.
                      ** Inside Japan.
                      Hmmm, and what are the definitions of those above?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Judge View Post
                        Hmmm, and what are the definitions of those above?
                        Nihonto are swords made in Japan, the traditional way. Folded, hammered, polished, etc.
                        Shinken are Japanese, or Japanese-styled swords with sharp edges. Some Japanese might even consider western swords to be shinken as long as they have live edges.
                        Iaito are literally any sword used for iaido.
                        Mogito is an imitation Japanese sword. Some may be built to be swung, others not.
                        Kazarito are display swords, usually made of cheap materials.

                        Michael Hodge

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                        • #42
                          I had a Shinken made for me in in Japan. I used Tozando. 2shaku 6sun with a 9shaku 5sun Tsuka. I'm quite happy with the quality of the blade and can recommend them.

                          Good luck with your purchase.

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                          • #43
                            Just raised what I had written. That's a damn long Stuka. let's change that to 9shaku 5bu shall we.

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                            • #44
                              That's a damn long Stuka. let's change that to 9shaku 5bu shall we.
                              That's almost exactly 9 feet (2.74 meters for you Euro folks) I would still classify that as a damn long tsuka.

                              Perhaps you should try 9 sun 5 bu?

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                              • #45
                                I finally get to say "I don't know how anyone could use a tsuka that big" with an incredulous tone.

                                Anything more than a shaku and a pair of sun is decadent excess.

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