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Wrist breaking and cut height

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  • #16
    For tenouchi, Nakayama made this kind of diagram. I translated the text quickly but basicaly it's what he says about adjusting your power.

    http://hfr-rehost.net/http://self/pi...6869c05c4.jpeg

    for those who can read japanese, it's

    NAKAYAMA Hakud (2002), Kend tebikis 剣道手引草 [1923] (rough kend manual), Tky, Taiiku to supohtsu shuppansha, pp.88-89

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Peter West View Post
      Another thought on this:
      If you strike Men uchi with your wrists at full comfortable extension (i.e. not over extended), how can you do that and end kirioroshi (Kiritsuke) with the sword horizontal, or as is current preferred taste, slightly higher? To achieve this the shibori action naturally changes the wrist angle with the sword. Either this or you severely restrict the distance of your target to being closer, in which case the sword doesn't clear the body at the end of the cut.

      Am I missing something here?
      Oops, sorry I haven't answered this one.

      Yeah, I was only worried about the base knuckle joint of the left thumb tapping the forearm at the ape/apogee/vertex of the cut. After that point, the kirioroshi would naturally not be at that level of ulnar deviation.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DCPan View Post

        Unka,

        Apogee is how I reconcile my Kendo Swing with my Iaido Swing. For me, my Kendo Swing and Iaido Swing is the same up to the point of contact. It is because the shinai cant continue the arc down through ones partner that makes the strike finish differently...for me, however, that doesn't mean it is functionally different. It just means I have to practice it differently so my partners are still willing to play with me
        That's the ideal of course, and how I explain it to my crossover students, but beginning kendo tends to exaggerate the flat throw forward which does involve a longer grip with thumb touching forearm. If your opponent ducks to the side even a good cut shape can end up long like that as the tip drags the hands forward in expectation of making contact etc etc.

        As for tenouchi being different in kendo and tameshigiri... perhaps this is so, but I've never really changed my grip for iai or tameshigiri. The only thing I have done in the past is to change my shibori just before contact if I'm striking newspaper with a bokuto/shinai, or free standng pool noodles with an iaito, I change the shibori so that the tip accelerates massively about two inches from contact, which pops it through the target before said target gets a chance to start bouncing away uncut. Of course that shibori means my grip is well into "kiri te" at the end of the strike so it's basically a crap cut that works.

        Kim.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Durandal View Post
          For tenouchi, Nakayama made this kind of diagram. I translated the text quickly but basicaly it's what he says about adjusting your power.

          http://hfr-rehost.net/http://self/pi...6869c05c4.jpeg

          for those who can read japanese, it's

          NAKAYAMA Hakud (2002), Kend tebikis 剣道手引草 [1923] (rough kend manual), Tky, Taiiku to supohtsu shuppansha, pp.88-89
          Be nice to read the discussion. Kishimoto sensei (a student of Nakayama s.) talks a lot about bo sei sats (the parts of the blade indicated there) but to my knowledge he's never gone through the soft weak sturdy strong thing.

          Kim.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Durandal View Post
            For tenouchi, Nakayama made this kind of diagram. I translated the text quickly but basicaly it's what he says about adjusting your power.

            http://hfr-rehost.net/http://self/pi...6869c05c4.jpeg

            for those who can read japanese, it's

            NAKAYAMA Hakud (2002), Kend tebikis 剣道手引草 [1923] (rough kend manual), Tky, Taiiku to supohtsu shuppansha, pp.88-89
            Just out of interest if anyone wants to know; the three areas on the blade are called:
            Bo - Block/Protection
            Se - Deflection/Control, and;
            Satsu - Kill

            If anyone has any alternatives, I would be interested to know.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Kim Taylor View Post
              Be nice to read the discussion. Kishimoto sensei (a student of Nakayama s.) talks a lot about bo sei sats (the parts of the blade indicated there) but to my knowledge he's never gone through the soft weak sturdy strong thing.

              Kim.
              My apologies, didn't see Kim's earlier reply!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Tenchu44 View Post
                Just out of interest if anyone wants to know; the three areas on the blade are called:
                Bo - Block/Protection
                Se - Deflection/Control, and;
                Satsu - Kill

                If anyone has any alternatives, I would be interested to know.
                That's how Kishimoto sensei translates and explains it. Other names for the three areas are tsuba moto, chu-o and monouchi. At the seminar this past May sensei was very clear on how to use the three areas, bo is a blocking area, edge to edge. Sei is for control and also used in uke nagashi, deflections and in this case contact is made on the shinogi, satsu is of course the business end. When doing sensei's matawari exercize use the bo area in front of the face to block the imagined cut to your head and keep the blade horizontal which forces the hands open so that you must reestablish tenouchi with each cut.

                Kim.

                PS if anyone has a translation of the explanation for the four states indicated earlier I'd be appreciative.

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                • #23
                  I thought it was clear enought, it's just the cycle of how you handle the tsuka and how it does affect the 3 parts of the blade. So it does help you to understand how to adjust correctly your grip.

                  And i read the discussion about tenouchi and that's why i thought it was interesting to post this.
                  Last edited by Durandal; 18th June 2012, 10:08 PM.

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