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  • #16
    Confound,
    The Zen Nihon Iai Renmei and the Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei are two entirely seperate bodies. Seitei iai forms (12 forms) come under the umbrella of the Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei. If you ever get the chance, go to the Kyoto Taikai during golden week and watch hundreds of sensei trying for their 8th dan examination, under the authority of the ZNKR, not the ZNIR. There are some fundamental diferences in the approach of the two. As my sensei has told me, practioners from both federations do have a respect for each other, but rarely participate in training together.
    Consult your sensei as to which federation they belong too.
    K

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    • #17
      We are suffering from thread wandering... anyone else want to help out the club in Wales?

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      • #18
        Im wandering cos it has me confused too.

        1, There is ZNKR Kendo.. a Kendo Renmei that do Seitei Iai. In Japan its called the Zen-Ken-Ren.

        2, The Zen-I-Ren.. Zen Nihon Iaido Renmei do fundamentals called Toho.

        3, To add something to confuse all there is yet another renmei the Zenkoku Iaido Renmei.

        In terms of Iai population its 2,1,3

        I am in one and two.

        I posted recently on Ebudo the fact that as I studied Seitei in the Japanese knock in the nail if it sticks out (God forbid we might show some character).
        A MJER seventy year old Menkyo Kaiden would study in the corner of the same dojo treated as if he had leprosy.

        Sadly thats the way it is sometimes. Pity people cant get on better together . So much for Budo Seishin. Perhaps thats why I have so much respect for cats

        Hyaku

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        • #19
          Hyaku,
          your puns get worse....btw, are you back in the UK for Xmas? The boss has got some wonderful tat for your other half to go on the mantlepiece...you'll especially like the Singing Santa...

          Tim
          p.s. send me money or we'll send the santa....

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          • #20
            Iaido in Wales

            I've only been doing Iaido for a few weeks, so forgive me if I don't know the answers that work.

            One thing you maybe could try is contact some of the Sensei of the various clubs abvout the place and see if they know anyone, or if they are willing to help set something up.

            Maybe there are people in the area who could teach, but just aren't on the internet and attend a club elsewhere. If so, the various Sensei will probably know about them in their own club.

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            • #21
              Confound!

              You're really full of it. Of course there is iai in koryu, they're not completely separate entities at all. It just has different names depending on the school. In Yagyu Shinkage-ryu for example, it is referred to as Batto. In the tradition I study (Hoki-ryu) it is called Iaijutsu, or Iai-kenjutsu...etc. etc.

              What you are referring to is Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei Seitei Iai(do). This is only about 30 years old. Iai kata are found in many different koryu as part of the syllabus, and there are many koryu in which the iai kata are the only part of the tradition that remain.

              As for not starting koryu iai until 4th dan...Well, you'll probably find out how wrong you are when you go to sit your (ZNKR) 2nd dan exam as you will have to do at least 1 koryu kata. Despite your incredible knowledge, I suppose you haven't made it that far yet. If you don't believe me, ring up the All Japan Kendo Federation...They should know, they made the system.

              Anyway, I have asked Trevor Jones whether or not he knows of a club in Wales. Still waiting for a reply from him.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by chidokan
                Hyaku

                The boss has got some wonderful tat for your other half to go on the mantlepiece...you'll especially like the Singing Santa...

                Tim
                p.s. send me money or we'll send the santa....

                Nooooo thats blackmail. Im already stuck with hearing the same Chrismas carol 30 times in an hour. By the way I still have that World soccer coin for your son.

                Two weeks to go and l will be on the beach.

                Regards Hyaku

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                • #23
                  sure you'd rather not come home? Its absolutely tossing it down, about 3 below zero, and gale force winds... far better than getting a suntan and scuba diving...dont forget to send some good pix, especially the one with a close up of a great white's teeth

                  Tim Hamilton

                  p.s. I wonder if the original post ever reads this to see if anyones replied....

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                  • #24
                    i think they gave up when you started talking about singing santas dude

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                    • #25
                      I would rather stand corrected than sit a fool.

                      That said, allow me to clarify my position.

                      Firstly, one kata does not a study of koryu make. I amaware that koryu kata are required for sho-dan, ni-dan (etc) gradings; however, it is possible that a person could use kata froma different koryu at each examination. It is not necessary to continuously study the same koryu, nor would it be detrimental to one's progress to study a different one for each exam.

                      My point is that a student who is just beginning to study iai need not worry about koryu just yet. In the beginning, Seitei Iai kata are more important, as they make up the bulk of the grading. You will forgive me if I anticipate your objection that the previous comment seems to encourage a 'grading' focussed study of iai. I am not suggesting that one should train or study for the sole purpose of passing an exam; however, grading requirements do provide a very useful frame of reference.

                      Secondly, it has been said recently in this thread that Seitei Iai isn't all that important, and I have been accused of being ignorant of its origins. I don't speak from any great pedestal of knowledge, nor do I claim to be the Delphic oracle. It's rather sad when anyone who is well spoken is automatically branded as a 'know it all'.

                      I'm aware that Seitei Iai isn't very old, but I trust that my sensei wouldn't encourage me to learn something that is worthless. There must have been some good reason for the development of Seitei iai. Though defending the status quo isn't normally my thing, I humbly submit that there must be something worth studying in Seitei iai, or it wouldn't have been developed at all.

                      i'm going back to taking my pneumonia medicine.

                      grumpier than ever,
                      confound

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        So....what happens to people who start studying iai, and they don't belong to a group affiliated with the AJKF? They obviously wont be doing Seitei, so does that mean they are not going about their study of iai properly according to the profound logic of Confound?

                        What about all the older sensei now who trained in iai for decades before seitei was even invented?

                        Do you even know what Seitei is, where it came from and why??? Do you have any idea what koryu school each different technique in Seitei comes from?

                        Yes you are being accused of ignorance of the origins of Seitei, because obviously you are. You are not being branded as being a "know-it-all" because of your eloquence, but because you climb on that "pedestal of knowledge" you claim you don't claim to to be speaking from, and offer all manner of comment and opinions without any real basis whatsoever.

                        Also, I never insinuated that 1 kata = study of koryu. I said that for your 2 dan grading you will have to do one koryu kata. Which usually means you do one out of the many you have been taught.

                        How long have you been doing iaido? Maybe when you've been doing it intensivley for a few years, and have accumulated enough experience and real knowledge about what you are doing you will have a right to say what beginners should and shouldn't be worried about. People will take you more seriously then. Stand corrected and just accept it for a change.

                        By the way, I am looking forward to be standing corrected on the hiki-waza thread. Hurry up and scan the thing.

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                        • #27
                          quote
                          "It's rather sad when anyone who is well spoken is automatically branded as a 'know it all'.

                          We have a local saying, I do not know if it exist in english, the translation is as follows: "you have to listen to self-praise, because it comes from the heart".

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                          • #28
                            Swansea Kendo

                            Hello


                            I would like to learn Kendo in Swansea and I noticed one of your threads. Well i was just wondering if you had any additional information about Kendo classes in Swansea.




                            Thank you

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              For kendo try the british kendo association website. For iaido, no clubs that I know of in the area but there are students scattered around.

                              Huw, one of our members lives in Porthmadog, and could pop over and see you if you are still interested. e-mail me for his address....

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