Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Why a wallhanger is extremely dangerous, shown in photos. Please READ. Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    No no no, you have it all wrong!

    Originally posted by samuraix966
    First of all, I'd like to explain my situation in a logical manner.

    1.

    Problem: Looking for a sword on eBay for less than $50.

    Solution: The only swords that sell for less than $50 are made out of 440 stainless steel.

    2.

    New Problem: Stainless steel is brittle.

    Solution: I plan to use it for swinging, nothing in contact with the blade except air and the saya. Just a side note, I will not tap the blade on a table

    Question: Will a stainless steel blade be able to retain its form when swung properly? In other words, can a stainless steel blade snap or warp simply by swinging with its edge leading?

    3.

    New Problem: Tsuka must be able to withstand the force of the swing.

    Solution: I will purchase a sword with at least 1 mekugi and a full tang. On a side note, I have only discovered eBay auctions where 3 metal mekugi were used in swords with a full tang.


    So from this, I am interested in purchasing a sword from eBay for less than $50. It will feature a blade made out of 440 stainless steel, a full tang, and 3 metal mekugi.

    The problem with metal mekugi is that it could slip out during the swing, but since the sword has 3, the chances of the blade flying out of the handle is very slim.

    Additional information on mekugi can be found here (scroll down near the middle) http://www.webdiva4hire.com/kenshinkan/suitability.html


    The only problem I have left is the question in #2. Any other problems that are revealed to me will truly be appreciated. I want to minimize the level of danger with the use of a cheap sword.

    Hey optomitrist, can you give a review of the quality of the sword that you purchased?

    *reads post, cries and then faints dead away at the screwed up logic*

    ... ... ...

    YOU ARE WRONG. NO wallhanger is safe!!! WHY is that so hard to understand?

    Furthermore, if you have NO training and are NOT in a dojo, you do NOT need a sword to play with. Unless you like the idea of losing fingers and perhaps a limb.
    YES it happens! NO sensei would dare let you use one of these swords as well.

    Geez, why do people insist on playing with 3 foot long VERY sharp objects?????

    It doesn't make you cool!! It just makes you very stupid. Sorry.

    I want to minimize the level of danger with the use of a cheap sword.
    *Hits him 1000 times with a wet noodle*

    If you only knew how ridiculous this sounds... Hooooo.... *tries to stay calm*

    *faints dead away again*

    Kaoru

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Hayamaru
      Even if you have a quality Katana, is it wrong to practice even if you've never even set foot in a dojo? (Like me )Because i do it all the time, but never were there any accidents, well except the time my friend hit me in the head with a Tanto (he is a moron). Just wanted to know if i Have to go to a dojo for "Proper ways to a live blade"
      Shred_Lord-san knew I'd eventually find this post.

      YES it is wrong on SO many levels it's not even funny.

      And, are you and you friend actually SPARRING with live(sharp) blades??? If so, do you understand that one of you could really DIE as a result???

      And, you should NOT be using that sword under ANY circumstances because you haven't a clue what the heck you are doing. Untrained people have a VERY high chance of hurting either themselves or another person. Did you know you can really lose a finger or worse? It does happen even to the high ranking sword teachers, though it is quite low for them, due to the time they have spent in the doojo learning. It is just that nobody is safe from getting cut. Especially those untrained. An untrained person can even die by improperly using a sword.

      Speaking of your friend cutting you. Do you realise how lucky you are that he didn't kill you? BOTH of you were being morons.

      So, the answer to your question is yes, you need to be in a dojo and learn from a qualified sensei. They will never let you use a live blade for quite a long time for good reason.

      I got your PM BTW. I will see what I have in Colorado.

      In the mean time, PLEASE put the sword away. And, why did your parents let you play with an object that can cause you serious injury or even death??? *sigh* No offense to your parents, but that's a serious question that should be thought about. They would be very sad if something happened to you. Please think about that.

      Safety is a serious issue. Sharp swords are not toys and are not meant to be played with by untrained people.

      Oh... BTW you nearly caused me to faint again!

      Kaoru

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by shred_lord
        Oh my god, Kaoru is going to kick your ass into the middle of next year!
        hehehe, Oops, I think I just might have... That one post of Samuraix966-san just about did me in. Nevermind Haramaru-san's post.

        *walks away shaking head*

        Kaoru

        Comment


        • #49
          I'm in no way an experienced student of Kendo. But seeing as how I had the same thoughts flowing through my head rather recently, and I have a degree in Engineering, I thought I'd offer you a perspective from a positiion somewhat close to your own.

          Firstly, I offer you these pics:
          http://www.spiritofsoka.org/gallery/...c9956eaf93d885
          This is a stainless steel sakabatou that I bought off ebay for like.. $29.99. A nice display sword that will never see action. It is, however, extremely sharp at the tip (the blade itself is dull). I've cut myself while resheathing the sword. Though it was a small cut, it could have been much worse. Even the dullest of blades has sharp points that can cause injury.

          Originally posted by samuraix966
          First of all, I'd like to explain my situation in a logical manner.

          1. Problem: Looking for a sword on eBay for less than $50.

          Solution: The only swords that sell for less than $50 are made out of 440 stainless steel.
          I bought a carbon forged blade from ebay for $39.99. It's probably very poorly made though, and would never really leave my mantel for any sort of combat.

          Originally posted by samuraix966
          2. New Problem: Stainless steel is brittle.

          Solution: I plan to use it for swinging, nothing in contact with the blade except air and the saya. Just a side note, I will not tap the blade on a table

          Question: Will a stainless steel blade be able to retain its form when swung properly? In other words, can a stainless steel blade snap or warp simply by swinging with its edge leading?
          Now onto your question about stainless steel. On a short piece of metal (cookware, butter knives), you could probably swing stainless steel at something and not break it. But you can most certainly bend it. Now, basic physics teaches that the longer the blade, the weaker the blade. So to go from a 6 inch long stainless steel blade to a 41 inch long stainless steel wallhanger is.. well... a significant decrease in overall strength.

          With a forged blade, the impurities are beaten out of a sword. That, and the fact that most forged baldes use finer grades of steel, make the sword a lot stronger than a machined stainless steel show pieces. Most stainless steel swords are show pieces. If you take it up against a real blade, it will most likely be broken.

          If you hope to "spar" with a stainless steel blade, you and possibly your opponent risk serious injury. Either Stainless steel shrapnel or even the sharp tip that I mentioned above. Especially the sharp tip. If that lodges in soft tissue, someone's going to be going to the emergency room.

          Originally posted by samuraix966
          3. New Problem: Tsuka must be able to withstand the force of the swing.

          Solution: I will purchase a sword with at least 1 mekugi and a full tang. On a side note, I have only discovered eBay auctions where 3 metal mekugi were used in swords with a full tang.

          So from this, I am interested in purchasing a sword from eBay for less than $50. It will feature a blade made out of 440 stainless steel, a full tang, and 3 metal mekugi.
          I was doing the same thing you are doing now. Let's just put it this way... with swords, you get what you pay for. The highest cost of swords is that it's hand made. You can have factory-made swords... and as such they are machined and probably don't have a place anywhere but on your wall (I'm not sure about most Iaito, but I'm pretty sure they're forged to a degree. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.). You might be lucky to get a Last Legend blade or a Paul Chen PPK on ebay for around $150 - $250. But honestly, with a lack of training, you really shouldn't be touching those. I saw the pic of the sensei who embedded his katana into his arm because he missed his resheath.... and he's a sensei.... it was enough to make me seriously reconsider buying a katana online.

          Those nice blades we see in movies? Those are forged blades, and usually heavily modified to not be lethal. No one in their right mind uses Stainless steel as anything but a showcase.

          And leave the sparring for when you have skill. Even a bokutou (wooden practice sword) to the head can kill you. Are you so eager to meet your end? If you want to learn, then go to a sensei/dojo. If you want to play pirates of the carribbean or last samurai with your friend, then go out and buy cheap plastic play swords. Those things are under $50 and I'm pretty sure you can get them for under $5 on ebay.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Icewind
            I saw the pic of the sensei who embedded his katana into his arm because he missed his resheath.... and he's a sensei.... it was enough to make me seriously reconsider buying a katana online.
            If you're talking about the guy over at http://www.swordforum.com I don't believe he was a sensei. At least not in iai. He posted something back in October about having just started Iai. He'd apparently been around swords a long time but was pretty new to Iai. At least that's what I've been able to gather from that thread so far.

            Comment


            • #51
              I stand corrected.

              I just hope samurai-x doesn't try to do any Rurouni Kenshin moves with a stainless steel blade because those strikes will snap the blade and send the sharp tip back at you.

              Comment


              • #52
                Yes I realize that the blade will snap if used with too much force, but I don't plan to use it for crazy stunts, just some light swinging. I'm not looking for a sharpened blade, and I could always take off the edge at the tip.

                Maybe I should save up a little and try to get a handforged blade for less than $150.

                Anyways, thank you IceWind for your well thought out response. I appreciate the fact that you included rational reasoning for why I should not get a stainless steel sword.
                Last edited by samuraix966; 28th May 2005, 10:12 AM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Well at this point there is no point arguing with this guy. He's clearly not taking the hint. There is nothing under $150 suitable for any form of training. If you really just wanted to swing something, you'd be getting a bokken or a suburito. Clearly that's not the case. Dishout the $250 for a low end iaito. You will be sorry one day if you don't.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    ^^; Err.. samuraix966, I would really seek out instruction before you get a sword of any kind, neither metal nor wooden. If you get a plastic one.. that's your own decision there.

                    However, if you swing anything around, swing a shinai. You're less likely to kill someone with that. :|

                    Most blades on ebay are crap, just so you know. Even the forged one that I got for $39.99 is... flawed. Some parts are a bit loose.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Full on. As a beginner to Iaiduo and first time-er on this forum, Im glad I didnt get a peice of shite like those wall hangers. Luckily, I started Iai in Japan under a top rated and ranked sensei who helped me get my practise katana. It cost 45,000 yen or $450 US. That is a standard factory made peice. It seems to me that anyone doing a Martial art would be insane to risk using cheap and shoddy equipment. Its hard to reattach body parts

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Here's another really bad idea:
                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

                        A sakaba is a reversed blade katana (sharpened edge is not the striking edge, meaning it's facing the sword wielder during strike), and this one is 440c-steel, half tang, and sharp. Sure, at $39 it's a real steal, but it'll also break and if it does, that's a whole lotta sharpened steel flying back.. at you!

                        In all honesty, I bought a sakaba from this guy (unsharpened) as a show piece and it stays nicely on my mantle. After drawing it a few times, parts of the scabbard are falling apart (woohoo for low quality craftsmanship). If someone were silly enough to break into my house, they're more than welcome to that SLO; I'll keep my good katanas well hidden.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          make your own it'll cost you $50, you dont require complicated tools. it will out live you and your kids, and it's alot tougher than anything you can purchase from a popular swordsmith for under $5000. it won't be as pretty but it's a sword you made yourself, it does take a couple months, but if you dont have or don't want to spend that much money it's your best choice.*CAUTION* if they use the tool of the "educated", that is denial, scorn and open ridicule, because of your handmade sword. as I am sure they will... (just watch what happens to me for making this post) you can always openly challenge them to compare blades with a destuctive test, most will just decline, giving their accusations less credibility, and some will nick and chip their blades, ruining the blades they deemed worthy. While yours is still pristine. of course if you are not in love with blades, and you don't have the determination for such a task, then a stick is just as good. a bookken only costs about $7 to $25. (but who wants a stick)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by aquilonian
                            make your own it'll cost you $50, you dont require complicated tools. it will out live you and your kids, and it's alot tougher than anything you can purchase from a popular swordsmith for under $5000.
                            I don't suppose you realise how ridiculous you sound. You have no clue what you are even saying. It takes years of serious training in forging a sword to learn to make one that is useable and SAFE. It will also cost you more than 50 dollars. You don't just pound a piece of steel together and suddenly you have a sword safe enough for actual use by a trained person.

                            Tougher has nothing to to do with it. It's the quality of the steel and the quality of the work done by a qualified swordsmith that matters. A cheap 440 steel blade is brittle and will break, but a quality sword that is made of good quality carbon steel most likely won't break unless one is stupid enough to hack at something they ought not, or, if some untrained person is attempting tameshigiri.

                            A quality sword made by a qualified swordsmith will last a person years, and yes, one can outlive a person's kids if it is properly taken care of.

                            A homemade sword made by someone who just used a lot of books and what have you, will not be safe for use. Before attempting to make a sword meant for use, one ought to go get proper instruction on swordsmithing. Otherwise, yeah, go ahead and try to make a sword for fun, but certainly, do not use it in practice!

                            it won't be as pretty but it's a sword you made yourself, it does take a couple months, but if you dont have or don't want to spend that much money it's your best choice.
                            Wrong. That's your WORST choice. You really have no idea what goes into making a sword that is safe for use, do you.

                            If a person does not want to spend the money, then they should get a bokken. Besides, an untrained person has no business using a live blade in the first place, so they should buy a bokken if they want to play with a sword.

                            *CAUTION* if they use the tool of the "educated", that is denial, scorn and open ridicule, because of your handmade sword.
                            What kind of idiotic statement is that? Sorry, but that is so wrong it's not funny.

                            Don't put quotes around the word "educated," because that is being spiteful towards those that have put in their time in the dojo. If you want to be sarcastic, please do it somewhere else. Simply put, a homemade sword will not be allowed into a legit dojo. A sword used in practice must be deemed safe by the sensei.

                            as I am sure they will... (just watch what happens to me for making this post)
                            Then, please don't come here and say silly things like this.

                            you can always openly challenge them to compare blades with a destuctive test,
                            That is not the way you test a sword, BTW. Even I know that.

                            most will just decline, giving their accusations less credibility, and some will nick and chip their blades, ruining the blades they deemed worthy. While yours is still pristine.
                            Actually, what would probably happen, is that the homemade sword will break quickly and quite possibly injure the person using it.

                            And, who in their right mind wants to ruin a good sword with such a silly test? I certainly wouldn't. I wouldn't, even with a good shinai I liked.

                            of course if you are not in love with blades, and you don't have the determination for such a task, then a stick is just as good. a bookken only costs about $7 to $25. (but who wants a stick)
                            How about you stop talking and get into a good dojo. That would be a good idea.

                            Kaoru

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              How do you tell if a sword is a wall hanger?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Gregory
                                How do you tell if a sword is a wall hanger?
                                It has;


                                • A little stamp on the blade saying
                                  • "CHINA"
                                  • "440 STAINLESS"
                                  • Something Similar
                                • The Tsuka (Hilt/Handle) is (false) ivory/bone and carved into a dragon shape
                                • The end of the Tsuka is molded to resemble a dragon/snake/wolf/eagle/gerbil/gorgon/chimera/etc.....
                                • It has metal mekugi (pegs though the tsuka that hold the blade)
                                • The Hamon (temper line) has a "frosted" look, is very regular and wanders off the edge at the kissaki (tip).
                                • The Saya (scabard) has large brass/silver moldings on the ends
                                • It's priced below 100
                                • 100's of other pointers

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X