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  • The "ultimate" for Jodo

    No, this isn't some stupid youtube thing, just a genuine question:

    Kendo has the men cut and kirikaeshi
    Iaido has the men cut and first kata

    These are the ultimate exercises that some up everything about the art, or so I've been led to believe. The ones that you will spend your lifetime trying to perfect.

    Jodo, I can think maybe honte uchi is the men cut of iai/kendo, maybe? Is that it, is there no kata or exercise that embodies what the art is about?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Newbie View Post
    No, this isn't some stupid youtube thing, just a genuine question:

    Kendo has the men cut and kirikaeshi
    Iaido has the men cut and first kata

    These are the ultimate exercises that some up everything about the art, or so I've been led to believe. The ones that you will spend your lifetime trying to perfect.

    Jodo, I can think maybe honte uchi is the men cut of iai/kendo, maybe? Is that it, is there no kata or exercise that embodies what the art is about?
    This is a bit out of my league in terms of knowledge but I can add my 2 cents worth of opinion. Honte Uchi is the first technique you do (in 9/10 dojos). The Honte uchi technique is featured in kata in the Okuden series which is the "inner transmission/teachings".

    To perform a proper honte uchi is something even Shimizu Sensei confessed to have been struggling with even in his last years. He said something along the lines of: "I wish that someday I can get my left honte uchi to look (as good) as my right honte uchi". I think he said this in his final years after more than 60 years of Jodo-training.

    Comment


    • #3
      The Honte uchi technique is featured in kata in the Okuden series which is the "inner transmission/teachings".
      Sorry, I've only done seitei, can you explain this?

      Sound like from what Shimizu Sensei said, it does kinda sound like jodo's men cut

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Newbie View Post
        Sorry, I've only done seitei, can you explain this?

        Sound like from what Shimizu Sensei said, it does kinda sound like jodo's men cut
        Ah...Well SMR-Jodo has 8 kata-series..(or 7 in some groups)
        They are Omote, Chudan, Ran-ai, Kage, Samidare, Gohon-no-midare (which was developed by Shimizu Takaji), Okuden and the final series Hiden Gokui, the last of which are only taught to Menkyo candidates. All in all around 64 kata (depending on how you count).

        Seitei Jodo is comprised of Kata drawn from the Omote, Chudan and Ran-ai series rolled into one system of 12 kata. And of course there are the 12 kihon techniques. These techniques were NOT developed by the samurai but by Shimizu Takaji and a few others in the 1920's and 1930's. The techniques are drawn FROM these above kata-series.

        You do Honte Uchi in Tsuki Zue for instance, but you also do it in the Okuden series. You do Gyakute Tsuki in Seigan, kuri hanashi and do barai in Ran-ai and so on.

        I daresay that for most the Honte Uchi is the hardest technique to master and that is prolly one of the reasons it was featured as the FIRST technique a new Jodo-student is taught. So I'm personally happy to be doing the Honte Uchi at every practice.

        Comment


        • #5
          I was gonna give you rep for being so helpful but have to spread it

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Newbie View Post
            I was gonna give you rep for being so helpful but have to spread it
            Rep? A Jodoka craves not these things

            Comment


            • #7
              ......


              but it's okay to obsess over grades, yeah?


              JUST JOKING. I wouldn't do that, now would I Sats, Marcus?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Newbie View Post
                ......


                but it's okay to obsess over grades, yeah?


                JUST JOKING. I wouldn't do that, now would I Sats, Marcus?
                Hehe . Nah the kyu/dan grades arent held in high esteem by everyone in our org but they are considered to be necessary..obviously..or they would have removed them by now .

                While we are on the subject, how often do Seitei Jodo grade and what are teh requirements?

                *edit*

                I'm getting a deja vu..Sorry if I asked this before :P

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Newbie View Post
                  ......


                  but it's okay to obsess over grades, yeah?


                  JUST JOKING. I wouldn't do that, now would I Sats, Marcus?
                  *Glares* You better be.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fred27 View Post
                    While we are on the subject, how often do Seitei Jodo grade and what are teh requirements?
                    Really depends on the organisation, I believe.

                    In Australia (WA at least, and provided you have the grading panel), there's a minimum of three months between kyu grades (starting at 4th kyu).

                    Then between 1st kyu to Shodan a 6th month wait, then Shodan to Nidan 1 year, Nidan to Sandan 2 years, Sandan to Yondan 3 years, etc. etc.

                    Note these are MINIMUM times between gradings - if you're not ready it's perfectly fine to wait longer.

                    As for requirements... If I'm not mistaken Kyu grades are by organisation, though Dan grades are pretty standard internationally?

                    In Australia:
                    Kyu Grades:
                    4th - first four tandoku
                    3rd - first eight tandoku + first kata
                    2nd - all twelve tandoku + kata 1, 2
                    1st - kata 1, 2, 3

                    Then Dan Grades:
                    Shodan: Kata 1-5
                    Nidan: Kata 2-6
                    Sandan: Kata 3-7

                    I believe Yondan changes to Kata 7-11, and Godan 8-12? I know it's not 4-8, it jumps, but I can't remember what number it jumps to. I think 7+...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Newbie View Post
                      No, this isn't some stupid youtube thing, just a genuine question:

                      Jodo, I can think maybe honte uchi is the men cut of iai/kendo, maybe? Is that it, is there no kata or exercise that embodies what the art is about?
                      Hi Newbie

                      Just read the link and I agree with your comment about it takes a life time to perfect. Doesn't everything in Budo

                      Re Iai, Nukitsuki is the first cut and Kiritsuki the main cut. Both are practiced with equal emphasis.

                      Anyway, back to your chat. It appears to me that All the Kihon will take me years to get to grips with. But I would have thought that Hiki otoshi would be the technique that required most attention out of all of the Kihon.

                      A quote from one of Nishioka Senseis' intereviews from jodojo.com "In SMR Jo, Hiki-otoshi is one of the hidden techniques"
                      link: http://www.jodojo.com/jodo01.html

                      Again this is my view but I always feel that Hiki otoshi has all the parts present in Honte uchi but with a little bit more added. If that makes sense.

                      That's me.

                      Cheers

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Noone likes hikiotoshi. Except this Hikiotoshi of course: http://www.thecheezburgerfactory.com...8754843750.jpg

                        But it seems to me that everyone has problems with that particular tandoku. But what's easier to execute - men or doh? Mae or kesa giri? But I know which one you'll spend more time trying to perfect..

                        *Glares* You better be.
                        Umm... yeah, sure Marcus.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oops, didn't get to edit in time. Broken link should be: http://arwenspiccies.tripod.com/budo...eburgercat.htm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Newbie View Post
                            Noone likes hikiotoshi. Except this Hikiotoshi of course:

                            But what's easier to execute - men or doh? Mae or kesa giri? But I know which one you'll spend more time trying to perfect..

                            Umm... yeah, sure Marcus.
                            One thing I picked up from the Gasshuku in Prague was that Kesa giri is used always and you should visualise going through Men not Do.

                            If you were doing Uchi Komi practice it would have to be at Men or you would miss the sword completely.
                            I like to practice this kihon using Uchi komi, that way the sound tells you how close you are to getting it right. Unfortunately I still hear too many Thwacks for my liking (angles wrong )

                            Love Samurai cat pic

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You (Newbie) can also check out Nishioka Senseis comments on Honte and Gyakute uchi in this interview. Well actually its about the grip in Honte and Gyakute but he draws a few parallels to Kendo and Iai grips.

                              If you wish to do some extra studies you could read every interview with Nishioka Sensei found here: http://www.jodojo.com/jodo01.html

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