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Jodo AJKF vs Aikikai

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  • Jodo AJKF vs Aikikai

    Hello I am trying to find the answer for is there a difference between AJKF and Aikikai , if yes how different is it. Thank yiu

  • #2
    Aiki jo switches the hands in the centre of the jo, ajkf jo switches the hands around the end. Both hit the opponent in the head so the definition of different will depend on whether you are looking at the end result or how to get there.


    • #3
      Thank you for the insight,
      but can we also say that Aiki Jo rating are only part of the Aikido rating where Jodo(AJKF) have their own ratings?


      • #4
        If by rating you mean grades (eg 1-kyu, 2-dan, etc), grades issued by one umbrella organization are generally not recognized by another. AJKF and affiliates have separate grades in kendo, iaido and jodo. These are usually not recognized by other groups and vice versa, although I believe there is a Shinto Muso Ryu group that asks their members to grade in AJKF jodo in parallel to their koryu. Aikijo and AJKF jodo are different arts anyway.


        • #5
          yes it is understandable that each organization does not recognize the other,
          but what i meant is that under AJKF a person can get grades in that Jodo form only,
          but under Aikikiai you can not do this as it is part of Aikido itself, am i correct?

          when you say different arts can you be more specific please. as where the differences are,


          • #6
            I only practiced aikido once for a few months (many many years ago) and not with Aikikai so I cannot say for certain how they administer grades. Within AJKF and its affiliates the grades for kendo, iaido and jodo are graded and administered separately. In my case I am currently 3-dan in kendo, 2-dan in iaido and 1-dan in jodo. I will take my 2-dan in jodo this coming weekend and thinking about going for 3-dan in iaido next spring. My grades in each do not affect the administration of the other grades. I can't say how Aikikai administers aikijo within their grading system.

            As for the differences between the arts, I've only seen a bit of aikijo and aikiken during the short time I practiced aikido. I do not understand them well but aikijo looks very different from AJKF jodo. Also as Taylor-sensei mentioned, the way hands change over is different and I would surmise that this implies appreciable differences in the kihon. AJKF seitei jodo, in case you are not aware (although I would guess that you are aware since this information is easy to look up), is a set of 12 kata that are based on Shinto-Muso-ryu jojutsu. As far as I am aware, aikijo kata do not resemble the 12 AJKF seitei jodo kata.

            Sorry I can't be more specific about the technical differences as I do not have the background necessary for this. For someone who could answer, it might help to understand from what angle you are asking (e.g. why do you want to compare?).


            • #7
              Yes noticed that there are differences. The reason I want to ask is might not be ias simple. I been practicing Kendo for 2 years, but there is no Iaido club/Sensei (to start a club)where I Live in Dubai, and I noticed that many Iaido people do play Jodo. Daughter started with Aikido and they teach Aki Jo and I was wondering if they are derived from the same origin. So now long story short I started Aikido to further encourage my daughter, as she finds Kendo to loud despite explaining to her that it is still more quiet than her class room. But I still like to take up Iaido


              • #8
                In general, weapons practice in Aikido is used to further the empty hand techniques. I do not believe that aikijo originates from the same place as SMR or ZNKR jodo.


                • #9
                  So if I understand correctly, you are actually interested in iaido and seeing as how ZNKR iaido and jodo populations overlap greatly, you were wondering if practicing Aiki jo would get you on the road to iaido via AJKF seitei jodo?

                  If so, I think it's clear that the answer is no. At my jodo club we actually had a member who practices aikido and had experience with aiki-jo as well as kei-jo (police jo). The sensei explained to her that neither of her other two jo experiences have much to do with seitei jo (although having seen some kei-jo, there are some similar techniques with seitei jo as both have origins in SMR). In any case, supposing you found a group that practices AJKF seitei jodo, that will not help you on the path to iaido either if they do not also practice iai (other than that maybe you get introduced to a sensei who is involved in both).

                  Jodo is relatively rare, even in Japan. Tokyo and Fukuoka are the big centers and there are populations in the other major cities. It might be entirely absent from secondary cities. It's not supported in the AUSKF despite the relatively large US kendo population. The iaido population is larger and more widely found than jodo.

                  While I do not want to chase away a potential new jodo practitioner (as I said, we're a relatively small population), I think if your real interest is iaido, then look for an iaido sensei. Iaido is also practiced by a more diverse set of organizations than AJKF so you do not have to limit yourself to the kendo federation. In fact, some aikido groups practice iaido in parallel (not within aikido).

                  In case you are interested in getting your child into iaido, in Japan the earliest start in iaido is around elementary school grade 6. Earlier than this and the child usually either practices kendo or iaido with a bokuto. Most iaidoka however started as adults with a rare few from mid-teens. I don't think they even make iaito for children with shorter stature than that of a typical 6th grader. Full on jo is ok for younger children assuming you can get a small enough jo (to be honest, never seen this though).

                  Good luck.
                  Last edited by dillon; 9th October 2014, 10:57 AM.


                  • #10
                    After doing two years in Kendo and doing reading, and I still think Aiki Jo is the road to Iaido i will say i will need to be mentally evaluated,

                    but I do appreciate your insight, on all the above, and the possible options, My daughter is happily enjoying Aikido now, and I kind of enjoy the Aiki Jo, as well.
                    for Iaido i will need to explore this, and maybe push our kendo Sensei to actively see iaido Seinsei in the Japanese community.

                    yes the Aikido club have Iaido, but was not sure if it is AJKF or more Aiki Ken.

                    Thank you again for valuable thoghts


                    • #11
                      You should ask your aikido group what kind of iaido they practice. Also go and have a watch. As far as I am aware, aikido groups that practice iaido do so in parallel with their aikido training, not within aikido (e.g. there's no such thing as aiki-iai). I would guess it's a koryu, AJKF seitei iaido or both (maybe even ZNIR Toho kata). Sometimes AJKF seitei iaido and jodo gets co-opted into non-AJKF groups. If you practice AJKF setiei iaido or a koryu typically found within AJKF (Muso Shinden-ryu and Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu are the two most widespread) through an aikido group and later switch to the same art but within the kendo federation then you'll have to start again with grading.

                      A bit more difficult matter with regards to iaido is that iaido tends have a stronger element of the old style teacher-apprentice relationship. Switching sensei is possible but not a light matter. So starting it within an aikido group and switching to a sensei from the kendo federation would mean not only starting over with the grade but in a way starting over with iaido.

                      As far as I am aware (which is not saying much) adoption of iaido within aikido groups also tend to be on an ad-hoc basis. It is not formally structured within the aikido federation but rather something the sensei pursues individually. But this sort of isolation also exists for independent koryu iaido/iaijutsu. The most important thing is the quality of the instruction and as implied above the sensei-deshi relationship. Of course, you might not have wide choices.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dillon View Post
                        It's not supported in the AUSKF despite the relatively large US kendo population. The iaido population is larger and more widely found than jodo.
                        Not to thread hijack, but while it is true that the Iaido population in the US is larger and more widely found than the Jodo population, there is currently support by the AUSKF for Jodo.

                        We don't have an individual section yet, but grades are recognised and there are AUSKF affiliated groups practicing Jodo in Seattle (WA), Portland (OR), Bremerton (WA), and New York (NY); and several of the instructors do hold Dan grade ranks in ZNKR Jodo. There have been Jodo seminars the past several years following the AUSKF Iaido nationals, and Jodo development is on the minds of at least Murakami-Sensei, Kato-Sensei, and Konno-Sensei.

                        Feel free to ping me for more info if you're near any of those areas and are interested in checking it out, I can give you more information.


                        • #13
                          Good to know, thanks!