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  • #16
    Belated reply

    Andrew,

    The "Chuden no Bu" series is probably the most unlike MSR of the series. There are certain similarities, but it's quite a departure. These kata in the series actually start in seiza, however are executed tachi. The directional cuts of the 'giri' styles in the list (zengo giri, sayu giri, zengo-sayu giri and happo giri) are large sideways sweeping cuts executed from kneeling to standing to kneeling in each direction. Nidan Tobashiri is most like Tora Bashiri of MSR, however, involves an additional cut at the beginning. Kabuto wari is very similar to Itomagoi, however, the draw is slightly different.

    Hope that settles your curiosity...

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    • #17
      New Website about Kogen Itto Ryu

      It is http://www.usfkenjutsu.com/main.htm. Although, it is not the same as "U.S. Classical Kendo Federation" referred to. Is there any connection here?

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      • #18
        Yes, that's still Kotaka's organization.

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        • #19
          I'm sorry but is any of this stuff legit? Looks a little dodgy to me. There's some guy on the site sporting a zekken with 悪魔 printed on it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by xvikingx View Post
            I'm sorry but is any of this stuff legit? Looks a little dodgy to me. There's some guy on the site sporting a zekken with 悪魔 printed on it.
            About 10 years ago or so the Sakurai people were discussed at length on various forums and the general consensus among those in a position to know was "they claim to be Kogen Itto-ryu. Head of Kogen Itto-ryu has never heard of them, a lot of these claims make little to no sense". I believe a lot of this was discussion on Iaido-l so a search through the archives there might turn up some more details.

            Rennis

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            • #21
              Cheers.

              10 characters....

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              • #22
                Since this old thread has been revived...

                I started my sword studies under Kotaka sensei in the mid 1990s and left about 10 years ago. I have remained in contact with senseis senior students however and those you see online are not these individuals.

                Kotaka sensei is no longer teaching and has retired from his professional life as well for the most part. About 10 years ago, he developed a health issue that affected his cognitive abilities. This was eventually diagnosed, surgery was performed, and he is doing much better now, though the damage was done.

                Unfortunately, while he was still teaching during that period, a few unscrupulous people took advantage of his ill health and the organization/art imploded. One very prominent website is operated by one individual who, with only a few years of study, somehow convinced Kotaka sensei to award him menkyo kaiden... I believe the Florida club has/had a connection with this person.

                The best resource for Kotaka senseis art is David Diguangco in Salt Lake City, Utah. He was ranked rokudan and is preserving Kotaka senseis art intact.

                What I have pieced together is that Kotaka sensei studied under a certain Sakurai Fumitaki in something while he was a youth (probably Ono-ha or Nakanishi-ha Itto-ryu and Muso Shinden-ryu), but it likely was not Kogen Itto-ryu as they look nothing alike. Was this person a member of the Shinsengumi? Who knows. A lot of young men joined during their last days and even more claimed some connection later in life. Regardless, probably because of Kotaka senseis family lineage as Kai Genji, a connection with Kogen Itto-ryu was claimed for whatever reason...

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                • #23
                  Kotaka's teacher's teacher was Shinsengumi? It says on the Int Classical Kendo Fed site that his sensei was a member.
                  Excerpt from an article:" The Relativistic Quantization of a Classical Kendo"
                  by Sadao Kotaka, Ph.D., Sakurai-ha Kogen Itto-ryu Soke

                  We practice Kendo/Iaido based on one of the most powerful Kendo schools that ever existed. I can say this with confidence, because my Sensei, Sakurai Gen'noshin Fumitaka, was a member of the Shinsen-gumi during the Civil Wars of the Meiji Restoration.
                  *From http://www.internationalclassicalken....org/index.htm
                  Either way I've got to ask, how freakin' old is Kotaka?! Because that was a loooooooong time ago. Around 1870 to be more specific. Ulysses S Grant was president. The Franco-Prussian war is going on. Construction of the Brooklyn bridge has just begun.The great Chicago fire breaks out. I'm talking OLD! So let's say Kotaka sensei is currently 80 (that seems like a nice reasonable age), that means he would have been born in 1929. And let's say his sensei, Fumitaka, did join the shinsengumi at the very end, at a nice young age of 15 (again a reasonable nomber I think), that would already make him 74 years old when Kotaka was born.
                  You'll have to excuse me for being a little skeptical, but it seems a bit far fetched.

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                  • #24
                    Is that article for real, or the title is just a word-play? Because it sets off all sorts of nasty bells.

                    I wouldn't trust someone writing about the "relativistic quantization" of anything. It's pseudo-scientific name-dropping of the worst kind.

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                    • #25
                      Not to mention the article is wrought with nationalism and historical inaccuracies.
                      Having dug up old discussions on this (google is your friend), I think I am just going to let this dead horse rest in piece.

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                      • #26
                        Sorry, double post. Read the excerpt in the site, no word play. Such pearls as:

                        "In a real sword fight, transform the huge wave of your opponent's spiritually oppressive tsunami into a set of miniscule points like photons."

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                        • #27
                          Gentlemen,

                          I don't think I expressed myself well in the last post. Kotaka sensei's teacher was named Sakurai Fumitaki. Sakurai sensei was supposedly a member of the shinsengumi.

                          Kotaka sensei in now in his seventies. He studied with Sakurai sensei starting after the war and up until Sakurai sensei's death in the 1950's. According to Kotaka sensei, Sakurai sensei was very old at that point. It is said he was in his early teens during his involvement with the Shinsengumi and one of the last members to join.

                          You guys might want to rethink the witch hunt. Kotaka sensei was also a member of the AUSKF and ranked 5th-dan Renshi I believe before leaving sometime in the 1980's. He was general secretary of the Midwest Kendo Federation and quite good in keiko... I visited Hajime Sugawara in Indianapolis a few years back. When I mentioned Kotaka sensei, his eyes lit up...

                          As to the article, Kotaka sensei has a PhD in physics--Quantum Physics I believe.

                          Personally, I feel the entire situation was very unfortunate; however, his instruction was excellent and his iai allowed me to easily convert over to Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu when I moved on.

                          Cheers,

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by A.J. Bryant View Post
                            [snip]
                            You guys might want to rethink the witch hunt. [snip]
                            As to the article, Kotaka sensei has a PhD in physics--Quantum Physics I believe.

                            Personally, I feel the entire situation was very unfortunate; however, his instruction was excellent and his iai allowed me to easily convert over to Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu when I moved on.

                            Cheers,
                            Look, I'm sure you are sincere and he was a great teacher to you. I don't doubt he had serious training and martial skills.

                            But PhD or no PhD, "relativistic quantization of Kendo" is, like I said, name-dropping and the article excerpts prove it is just that. Serious scientists do not do this. See here for further discussions on the misuse of science and scientific terms and concepts.
                            This may have nothing to do with Kendo but it's my pet-peeve, so to speak.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by A.J. Bryant View Post
                              You guys might want to rethink the witch hunt.
                              No witch hunt here. I'm just trying to make sense of this claim. The war ends in 1945, hypothetically you could make Sakurai 10 years old at the end up the boshin war joining the shinsengumi and he'd still be 86 when he started instructing Kotaka, dying at 91 years old. Now that's plausible but according to what has been written he would have been even older than that.

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                              • #30
                                Gentlemen,

                                Kotaka sensei was a physicist for the US Navy in California, then Honda in Ohio. I'm not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV, or even care about academic issues in the field.... FYI, that article is at least 15 years old.

                                As to Sakurai sensei's age, yep, I understand he was about that old...

                                It is what it is... Cheers,

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