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  • Niten Ichi Ryu

    I no this isn't Kendo but I didn't know where to put it so I put in Waza. Does anyone no where I can get any online guides or books I could get or just any links about Miyamoto Musashi's Niten Ichi Ryu technique.

    "A jouney of a thousand miles must begin with a single step" - Chinese Proverb

  • #2
    here's an adress where you ll find what you re looking for :http://www.hyoho.com/
    One of the people that knows a lot about it is a senior member in this forum ,his nickname is Hyaku.
    Next time if you want to know something about a kenjutsu ryu,you'd better ask your question at the Iaido part of this forum.
    Hope i was of help,

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi!

      If you are talking about learning it on your own, no. But, a very good person to talk to and ask nice questions to, is Hyaku-sensei, who is a senior student of HNIR(Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu) in Japan. He is the best person here to ask. He is on this forum from time to time. While you are at it, please check out his HNIR website:

      http://www.hyoho.com/

      This site may help answer some of your questions.

      Hope this helps!

      Edit: hahaha, Cross-posted with Hisham-san! You beat me Hisham-san!

      Kaoru

      Comment


      • #4
        I recently sent off for a DVD regrading Niten Ichi Ryu:

        Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Gokui Shinan
        (Instruction in Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Secret Teachings)

        Author:
        Miyata Kazuhiro

        Which is available at: http://www.buyubooks.com/product_details.cfm?id=10725

        I have not yet received the DVD so I can't give you an opinion regarding its quality...

        The contents are:
        Contents

        I. Kiri Zashi Gohon


        1. Kiri Zashi Uchi Dome
        2. Kiri Zashi Harai Giri
        3. Ippyoshi Soto Barai
        4. Ippyoshi Uchi Harai
        5. Ryusui Uchi Dome

        II. Shikko Gohon
        (Close range dueling techniques)

        1. Shikko no Tsuki (left)
        2. Shikko no Tsuki (right)
        3. Irimi
        4. Sekka no Uchi
        5. Juji Shuko no Mi

        I will post an opinion ref this DVD when I have had a chance to view it.

        Also... George Alexander has released a couple of DVDs ref Niten Ichi Ryu. Whther or not you are interested in these will largely depend on what you think of Dr. Alexander's presentation style (I find it okay...)

        crabbi

        Comment


        • #5
          No...

          Originally posted by crabbi
          I recently sent off for a DVD regrading Niten Ichi Ryu:

          Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Gokui Shinan
          (Instruction in Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Secret Teachings)

          Author:
          Miyata Kazuhiro

          Which is available at: http://www.buyubooks.com/product_details.cfm?id=10725

          I have not yet received the DVD so I can't give you an opinion regarding its quality...

          The contents are:
          Contents

          I. Kiri Zashi Gohon


          1. Kiri Zashi Uchi Dome
          2. Kiri Zashi Harai Giri
          3. Ippyoshi Soto Barai
          4. Ippyoshi Uchi Harai
          5. Ryusui Uchi Dome

          II. Shikko Gohon
          (Close range dueling techniques)

          1. Shikko no Tsuki (left)
          2. Shikko no Tsuki (right)
          3. Irimi
          4. Sekka no Uchi
          5. Juji Shuko no Mi

          I will post an opinion ref this DVD when I have had a chance to view it.

          Also... George Alexander has released a couple of DVDs ref Niten Ichi Ryu. Whther or not you are interested in these will largely depend on what you think of Dr. Alexander's presentation style (I find it okay...)

          crabbi
          Alexander is a fraud, by the way. He was never taught HNIR.

          And, that DVD you just bought is no good either. BTW, How can you have an opinion and appraise it, if you never trained in HNIR?

          Anyway, ask Hyaku-sensei about all this. NONE of these materials are the real deal. HNIR is pretty much a closed Ryuha to outsiders. There are no teaching DVD's or videos of HNIR because none were made.

          And, please see this thread concerning this Alexander person:

          http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...threadid=28188

          And, there was a thread here on HNIR and him and I forget where it is, but his "Kendo" isn't even real Kendo. Here is his own site:

          http://www.shorin-ryukarate.com/IBKFRequirements.html

          And very bad pics of "kendo:"

          http://www.shorin-ryukarate.com/KendoGallery.html

          Kaoru

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for sharing Kaoru (!) ... hope that made you feel better!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by crabbi
              Thanks for sharing Kaoru (!) ... hope that made you feel better!!!
              You're welcome. Feel better for what? I was just being factual. I left out the emoticons. There are just too many Musashi wannabes around.

              Kaoru

              Comment


              • #8
                There is little literature on the actual waza of the Ryu. It simply cannot be put down on paper. As with other arts you can only supplement what you learn in the Dojo from books and manuals. The ryu has an oral/practical tradition. As Soke says its like a full cup of water being transferred to a ne cup. We must ensure that non is spilt. So saying there are a good many who dont have a full cup and a lot who seemed to have poured their own!

                There are also Mac dojo's here in Japan as well as other countries. One guy in the Fukuoka newspaper said he actually had "visions from Musashi".

                The only way to get a real start is to attend one of our seminars or get some help from someone that has attended. I know it's a lot to ask but we all have to put ourselves out. A lot of us here in Japan travel well over 200 Kilometers a week just to meet up and practice and take up out own time to travel half way round the world to help. Others make the effort to come to us.

                The last half of Dokodo I have translated contains text on both Ito and Nito Seiho. But I have no intentions on publishing it right now. I will leave the books and videos to the cowboys.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kaoru
                  Alexander is a fraud, by the way. He was never taught HNIR.

                  And, that DVD you just bought is no good either. BTW, How can you have an opinion and appraise it, if you never trained in HNIR?

                  Anyway, ask Hyaku-sensei about all this. NONE of these materials are the real deal. HNIR is pretty much a closed Ryuha to outsiders. There are no teaching DVD's or videos of HNIR because none were made.

                  And, please see this thread concerning this Alexander person:

                  http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...threadid=28188

                  And, there was a thread here on HNIR and him and I forget where it is, but his "Kendo" isn't even real Kendo. Here is his own site:

                  http://www.shorin-ryukarate.com/IBKFRequirements.html

                  And very bad pics of "kendo:"

                  http://www.shorin-ryukarate.com/KendoGallery.html

                  Kaoru
                  When I mentioned assessment of the quality of the DVD, my criteria will be around the quality of production, presentation and communication. As you say... how could I possibly rate it in terms of accuracy regarding this specific art (which I have never practiced and probably never shall, given its secrecy and exclusivity!!!).

                  I make no defence of George Alexander, but equally I would not stoop to calling him a charlatan / moneygrubber / fake behind his back.

                  It is very easy to hold high-flown opinions in anonymous fora such as these... I know, because I do it myself!

                  However, in the same way that I enjoy criticising poor hollywood melodrama and poor script-writing... I believe that poor martial arts materials also allow arrogant, pompous Martial Arts 'has-beens' (or never-were) to feel superior to somebody and parade their 'insider knowledge' in the hope of impressing a noob (like myself)...

                  Well frankly... it comes across as being more self-important, boorish, shabby and fake than a George Alexander DVD.

                  But thanks for the input anyway...

                  crabbi

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by crabbi
                    (which I have never practiced and probably never shall, given its secrecy and exclusivity!!!).
                    crabbi
                    Its not secret and its not exclusive. But as long as there are people like Mr Alexander and World Head of Family Sokeship Council Grandmasters of this century around we need to try to protect and value what we know and to keep its level high. That's what separates us from those that know and those that say they know. We are just trying to preserve and expand a budo culture, not sell stuff!

                    Nito was okuden and was not taught in the open Dojo until the end of last year. So I am quite surprised that others profess to have so much knowledge of it when a lot of our own people did not do it.

                    The thing is if one shows willing and practices regularly a lot of what we may have thought was okuden or mongai fushutsu does get shown to us so we can hand it down in the manner it was taught.

                    Expect things to open up but if too many people mess about it will drive it back under. The "We are all students" policy sounds fine to me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      NTIR schools are wicked hard to come by...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by crabbi
                        When I mentioned assessment of the quality of the DVD, my criteria will be around the quality of production, presentation and communication.
                        IMHO, You can do this for yourself, but don't pass it off here, as something worth buying.

                        As you say... how could I possibly rate it in terms of accuracy regarding this specific art (which I have never practiced and probably never shall, given its secrecy and exclusivity!!!).
                        I never said anything about secrecy and exclusivity. I said closed. I mean you can't learn HNIR unless you either go to Japan to study or go to one of the annual HNIR seminars given by Hyaku-sensei and the HNIR Soke. There was just one in France last month. In August, one in Canada. Otherwise, it is pretty much forget it. There was no need to be sarcastic on your part, BTW. You know why I said that. (Did you read Hyaku-sensei's post?)

                        I make no defence of George Alexander, but equally I would not stoop to calling him a charlatan / moneygrubber / fake behind his back.
                        Did you ever read the e-budo link I gave you? The consensus is that he is a charlatan to claim such things. I think maybe I could have been less blunt, but he is not a member of the Ryu. He has no qualifications in HNIR. Therefore, his video is worthless. It is unfortunate that this is so.

                        It is very easy to hold high-flown opinions in anonymous fora such as these... I know, because I do it myself!
                        It so happens that a lot of people think the same, so it is hardly a "high flown opinion." BTW, some people here know who I am. I don't always say perfect things. Nobody can do that. But, I know my opinion on this wasn't unfounded.

                        However, in the same way that I enjoy criticising poor hollywood melodrama and poor script-writing...
                        It is out of disgust, not enjoyment. I usually don't say anything unless it is really awful. I don't like people who take advantage of people who know little about JSA with their claims.

                        I believe that poor martial arts materials also allow arrogant, pompous Martial Arts 'has-beens' (or never-were) to feel superior to somebody and parade their 'insider knowledge' in the hope of impressing a noob (like myself)...
                        Are you indicating that I am trying to impress you? I never indicated that and I am not doing so. I don't even KNOW you. Besides, to try to impress someone with knowledge is stupid. What I said had nothing to do with feeling superior(Last thing on my mind.) and it isn't "insider" knowledge either. It is knowledge you gain from experience in the dojo and talking to others more advanced than you as well as reading on JSA subjects.(I don't know everything, but neither does anyone. And, I am hardly perfect.) Since you only JUST began training, I suggest not saying the above before you have enough background in JSA to back yourself up. (I am assuming you read the e-budo thread.)

                        Well frankly... it comes across as being more self-important, boorish, shabby and fake than a George Alexander DVD.

                        But thanks for the input anyway...
                        What becomes such as you said above, is when the person can't accept truth. If it was not true, I'd not say it.(And if I ever got something wrong, I'd sure as heck hope somebody trained, who knew the right thing, would correct me!) Though, I own that I could be less blunt.

                        You should view Hyaku-sensei's HNIR website. I am thinking you have not yet. He is a senior member of HNIR and what he says is quite valid. Of anyone you should pay attention to in regard to HNIR, it should be him.

                        Kaoru

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hyaku
                          Its not secret and its not exclusive. But as long as there are people like Mr Alexander and World Head of Family Sokeship Council Grandmasters of this century around we need to try to protect and value what we know and to keep its level high. That's what separates us from those that know and those that say they know. We are just trying to preserve and expand a budo culture, not sell stuff!

                          Nito was okuden and was not taught in the open Dojo until the end of last year. So I am quite surprised that others profess to have so much knowledge of it when a lot of our own people did not do it.
                          Hyaku... I have no argument with protection of what is regarded as precious... this is an honourable thing to do. However, the first paragraph of your response first of all denies exclusivity, then gives a perfect definition of exclusivity....

                          I have no beef with that... but accept that if there are people hungry for knowledge, they will take whatever scraps are thrown their way... If you don't feed them, they will obtain food from other sources. If the only source is MacDojo Charlatans then this will become the de facto standard whether you like it or not... and your art will become devalued depite your best intentions. If you decide to publish at some time in the future, then you will face an awful lot of unlearning in the community... soory, but that's the way it works.

                          Regarding your website, I found it interesting and factual as Kaoru indicated it would be. This only serves to whet the appetite further!

                          As to Kaoru... thanks for your comments... your enthusiasm to defend your art does you credit... however your tone is offensive and heavy-handed... just an observation... not intended to be a personal attack...

                          Cheers

                          crabbi

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by crabbi
                            Hyaku... I have no argument with protection of what is regarded as precious... this is an honourable thing to do. However, the first paragraph of your response first of all denies exclusivity, then gives a perfect definition of exclusivity....

                            I have no beef with that... but accept that if there are people hungry for knowledge, they will take whatever scraps are thrown their way... If you don't feed them, they will obtain food from other sources. If the only source is MacDojo Charlatans then this will become the de facto standard whether you like it or not... and your art will become devalued depite your best intentions. If you decide to publish at some time in the future, then you will face an awful lot of unlearning in the community... soory, but that's the way it works.

                            Regarding your website, I found it interesting and factual as Kaoru indicated it would be. This only serves to whet the appetite further!
                            Musashi's Ryuha has got to be the most exploited Ryuha around. So, it is quite understandable why Hyaku-sensei said what he did. What you said is wrong. You can't expect anything of the Ryu to just be handed to you or anyone else. It is like that in other Ryuha too. HNIR just happens to be harder to get a hold of than most.(For good reason.) You should not begrudge them of that, which is what you seem to be doing.

                            Regarding unlearning... They will have never learned in the first place, if they were fool enough to attempt to teach themselves using books and videos and/or train with self-proclaimed HNIR teachers who really aren't. Therefore, it is their fault only. It won't be Hyaku-sensei's fault at all for any of that, and for not publishing it, and you are really out of line for even hinting that it would be his fault for any of that.

                            As to Kaoru... thanks for your comments... your enthusiasm to defend your art does you credit... however your tone is offensive and heavy-handed... just an observation... not intended to be a personal attack...
                            To be honest, you indirectly attack and that is not very nice. You think you were not offensive and heavy handed? That one post to me and your post to Hyaku-sensei was just awful. I only replied as politely as I could, considering your remarks.

                            And, I am not an HNIR student. I have done Kendo for a year now. I think you misunderstood me when I mentioned "outsiders." I was not talking about me being an "insider" as a member of the Ryu, since I am not. But, I see now that you were, and I guess you thought I am an HNIR student when you said "insider," and I did not see or catch that, or I'd have made what I meant more clear in my reply so the wrong idea was not gotten. Sorry about the confusion. (There are no HNIR dojos in the US. Only in Canada can a person train in HNIR in N. Am.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ...This could go on forever... let's draw a line under it and agree to eternally misunderstand each other Kaoru...

                              I am interested in the Niten Ichi Ryu intellectually, but am certainly not in any position to consider training / learning it.

                              ... although I have trained / studied Martial Arts for over 25 years, I am a complete noob to Kendo and would not presume to suggest that I know more than someone who has practiced for a year + (I am being sincere here... not ironic!).

                              I am having to unlearn a lot of sword / bokken technique that I learned in Aikido... so I know how difficult this is.

                              I learn as much from observing the young Kendoka who are learning with me as I do from the words of experienced sempai... not false humility - fact! They are oftentimes much quicker to pick things up than us oldies... and instruction with them has to be very clear and unambiguous.

                              In fact, I rejoice in the fact that I learn more from my own kids on a daily basis than I could from the teachings of any guru / sage... and when I stop learning, I will be pushing up the daisies (an old British euphemism for being dead).

                              I have learned from my interaction with you that I need to be more judicious, sensitive and clear in my communication... especially when dealing with emotive issues...

                              If I have upset you, then I apologise - I have always respected other Martial Artists and you are certainly no exception... as I say, I have definitely learned a lot from this thread.... so thanks...

                              (and thanks for the links to the e-budo site).

                              All the best

                              crabbi

                              Comment

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