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  • Specifics of Kenjutsu.

    I always see people refering to some kenjutsu styles better then others.. is there a way to comapre, or possibly a chart? Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a overview of how the most common styles worked.(I.e Tenne-Rishin-Ru used alot of thrusts.)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Light Samurai
    I always see people refering to some kenjutsu styles better then others.. is there a way to comapre, or possibly a chart? Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a overview of how the most common styles worked.(I.e Tenne-Rishin-Ru used alot of thrusts.)
    When e-budo gets back up and running, you should go ask there too. They'll give you so much information you won't know what to do with it. There are a lot more Kenjutsu guys there than here. Maybe Hyaku-sensei will comment here. He does Kenjutsu.

    Kaoru

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kaoru
      When e-budo gets back up and running, you should go ask there too. They'll give you so much information you won't know what to do with it. There are a lot more Kenjutsu guys there than here. Maybe Hyaku-sensei will comment here. He does Kenjutsu.

      Kaoru
      Thanks alot kaoru-san. I was there once, got flamed, and left. But yeah. I might just browse there for the info.

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      • #4
        Only way to test their effectiveness is through fight with shinken to the death, and that is not possible(99.999%) anymore.

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        • #5
          No wonder why you got flame asking this kind of question. To compare which ryu is better than which will result in a flame war. People usually think their ryu is the best.


          Anyway asking about special characteristic such as tennen rishin ryu has many trust technique is educated question IMHO.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Light Samurai
            I always see people refering to some kenjutsu styles better then others... Blah blah blah...
            E-budo folks have a problem if you don't get flamed.

            It's like saying some dojo is better than the others and asking which is the best dojo in the USA. A lame question asked for the sake of being flamed.

            For the moment check the list at
            www.koryu.com

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            • #7
              Better?

              Originally posted by KenShi_JoB
              No wonder why you got flame asking this kind of question. To compare which ryu is better than which will result in a flame war. People usually think their ryu is the best.

              Anyway asking about special characteristic such as tennen rishin ryu has many trust technique is educated question IMHO.
              I had a conversation about "better" in a slightly different context after class last night.

              My buddy said that it is like asking "Which car is the best?"

              And the reply is "Best at what?" Aspects like "highway speed," "off-road maneuverability," "fuel efficient," and "power to tow heavy loads" come to mind.

              In other words, it's a matter of context.

              Kenjutsu styles evolved to fill the need to survive under a set of circumstances embedded in a particular place and time.

              Ultimately, it is not the style that matters, it's the practitioner.

              HTH

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              • #8
                References.

                Originally posted by Light Samurai
                I always see people refering to some kenjutsu styles better then others.. is there a way to comapre, or possibly a chart? Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a overview of how the most common styles worked.(I.e Tenne-Rishin-Ru used alot of thrusts.)
                Not much in English to help you out, and I do not know if there is anything like this in Japanese.

                The style you mention, Tennen Rishin Ryu was a style practiced by the Shinsen Gumi, and was used for a very short time [~1850 - ~1868].

                Historically, the Shinsen Gumi come off as a band of vigilante thugs who specialized in group assasination (many of them to cut down one or two people). See Ryoma: Life of a Renaissance Samurai by Romulus Hillsborough; BTW, his Shogun's Most Dreaded Samurai Corps: The Bloody Legacy Of The Shinsengumi is due to be released at the end of the month.

                So, we have a style, Tennen Rishin Ryu, and its context, the Shinsen Gumi and their tactics during the decline and fall of the Tokugawa Shogunate.

                I have seen the DVD. Interesting style but it's not for me. I'll stay with Niten Ichi Ryu and Kasumi Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu.

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                • #9
                  I second R A Sosnowski, and based on what i've read (hope i can get to practice someday) and as an example of how the ryu adapted to there times is the "Full armor on" style of fighting that was the trend before the Tokugawa era and the unarmored style one which has survived to this day.

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                  • #10
                    A style is always as good as the person who uses it. What really matters is the person you're fighting, not the style he is using.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Light Samurai
                      I always see people refering to some kenjutsu styles better then others..
                      As a kenjutsu practitioner it's not a question I would ask. Usually we discuss certain similarities we have and go overboard complimenting each other on our present level of achievement.

                      Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai get together and embu this weekend. I doubt if anyone there would be rude enough to ask that either.

                      The main thing always mentioned in speeches is, "Why are there so few of us that are interested?"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hyaku
                        The main thing always mentioned in speeches is, "Why are there so few of us that are interested?"
                        I would imagine this is because a majority hear Japanese sword and think The Last Samurai and Kill Bill but when they begin training they find its very much NOT what Hollywood has glamorized. If you haven't mastered the spinning backflip beheading waza by the first week they start to think that this was not what they had in mind and quit. Its the few of us that see beyond the "flashing steel" to that deeper meaning that we desire that stick with it and want to continue to learn.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Light Samurai
                          I always see people refering to some kenjutsu styles better then others.. is there a way to comapre, or possibly a chart? Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a overview of how the most common styles worked.(I.e Tenne-Rishin-Ru used alot of thrusts.)
                          There seems to be similarities between ryu of the same era. Some common things are the use of strong hip twisting movement, avoidance with attack and most of all the different grip of a weapon that incorporates a different set of arm muscles. These similarities between ryu also show that things have not changed that much over the years.

                          Then you have to add a variation in the philosophical outlook of each ryu. But referring to some styles to be better than other is not a good philosophy. It's certainly not an ideal upheld by some of the more well known ryu.

                          Did you mean Tennen Rishin Ryu?. Niten Ichiryu also uses a thrust as a fundamental movement and no cuts from above the head.

                          The main objective of most has to be a strong avoidance of adaptation. A practice of years of fundamentals with the added individual character of the person concerned and the addition of referring to a specific written text if any.

                          I doubt if you will see any comparison charts. That would take a lot of practice in more than one ryu. In any case ryu are not disposed to writing things down. The value of what you learn is in your hands to be handed on the others. There has always been a certain amount of protectionism in not putting things on paper unless the true meanings are well hidden within.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Slade
                            I would imagine this is because a majority hear Japanese sword and think The Last Samurai and Kill Bill but when they begin training they find its very much NOT what Hollywood has glamorized. If you haven't mastered the spinning backflip beheading waza by the first week they start to think that this was not what they had in mind and quit. Its the few of us that see beyond the "flashing steel" to that deeper meaning that we desire that stick with it and want to continue to learn.
                            Why would anyone be like that. I kove working on the basics more then anything else. In our last class when sensei announced that we will be doing nothing but the basics for the next few lessions I was very excited! ^o^

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Charuzu
                              Why would anyone be like that. I kove working on the basics more then anything else. In our last class when sensei announced that we will be doing nothing but the basics for the next few lessions I was very excited! ^o^
                              I think that at nearly 16 you haven't experienced the immediacy of the older generations. The older you get the faster things must be to fit in the day. Instant coffee, fast food, high-speed internet, PDAs and cellphones. If it isn't happening now, then it's not fast enough. Its those people that you find quitting when they learn it will take 10 years to get good. Not expert but just good. That's not fast enough for them so they quit. There's few of us that hear good and go, "ok, I can live with that" and just train. We are the few that strive to keep the art alive in ourselves and ultimately with others we may one day teach.

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