静流薙刀 - Sei ryu naginata?

[Yonshakujo]

Hi.

I started this thread twice, lost a longer version, don't have time to do all again.

Today I was reading an old (Showa 10 = 1935) kendo book by Takano Shigeyuki and Tanida somebody I can't read (谷田左一） and there is a chapter entitled 静流薙刀の形。　A naginata versus sword kata complete with photos.

Now, I write this in Japanese because I have no idea of the correct reading is - I can imagine Sei-ryu, perhaps Shizu-ryu.

Anyhow, I can't find much about it on the Japanese web, and can't put my hands on my Ryuha jiten.

It doesn't seem to be in Ellis Amdur's excellent 'Old School', either. (It is not Suzuka ryu, which is a different set of kanji.)

Anyhow, anyone know anything about this?

Thanks,
Lance Gatling

PS - Also, I wonder if the Tanida is kin to the modern day Tanida sensei of Eishin ryu iai.

[Oroshi]

Hello, I'm pretty sure this is pronounced Shizuka ryu. It makes me think of Shizuka Gozen, but I don't know if there is any real connection.

That's all I can offer you - sorry!

[Kent Enfield]

I asked this question at Sword Forum a year ago.

[Oroshi]

Ah, ignore me then. I remember reading of しずかりゅう somewhere but it was obviously wrong. I just googled for すずかりゅう and it's clearly that (there are two ways of writing it).

[Yonshakujo]

I asked this question at Sword Forum a year ago.

Thanks - I was reading the same book, as you probably surmised.

Interesting answer from Ellis, too, but they never explained the shift from Suzuka-ryu to Sei-ryu.

I'm sort of surprised that Google didn't spot that thread, it is a good reference.

Regards,

Lance Gatling

[Kent Enfield]

Interesting answer from Ellis, too, but they never explained the shift from Suzuka-ryu to Sei-ryu.

Because there wasn't a shift. The ryu was transmitted in Tohoku (Sendai-han), and Tohoku dialect is marked by the voicing of internal normally unvoiced consonants and famously the shifting of shi, chi, and ji to su or zu--hence the common name of the regional dialect as zuzu-ben. Thus 静 is pronounced "suzuka" instead of "shizuka". According to Japanese Wikipedia, it is likely that 静 is the original character and 鈴鹿 is ateji that came later. It's not a change in pronunciation; it's just a change in spelling.

[Yonshakujo]

Speaking of unintelligible dialects....

Of course..... the dreaded zu-zu ben.....

Thanks, makes sense.

Lance Gatling

[ben]

It's certainly the most extreme case of hamon that I've heard of. b

[Kent Enfield]

Of course..... the dreaded zu-zu ben.....

Nanusute Sendaiben chirē degasu ge? Tōkyō no dajagu na shido no yō sa hanazudē be ge?