kendo endurance documentary

there was a great documentary on nhk yesterday following Ogata-Sensei (a 5th dan jodan kendoka) who took part in a kendo endurance test.

his sensei was Shindo-Sensei who finished 3rd in the 38th all japan champs and who taught him jodan. Shindo-Sensei had died several years before and this endurance test was in his honour. i'm not sure, but it may be a yearly test.

Ogata-Sensei, and 5 or 6 others, had to fight continuosly for 3 hours against 36 opponents. the matches were not sanbon-shobu, all were the same length, and i think that the level of the opponent increased as the tournament went on.

Ogata-Sensei was awesome, often scoring 5 points in a match. i think that he only drew 2 or 3 matches and lost one. by the end of it he was pretty done in, as you would except. his opponents towards the end were showing him no mercy and repeatedly taking advantage of his fatigue and knocking him down but he kept getting back up.

it reminds me of a quote by daredevil evil knievel;
"the bottom line is, a man can fall many times but he only stops being a man when he refuses to get up."

the documentary was in the style of the well known one about Eiga-Sensei, blending clips from his home life, work (as a prison officer) and his training.

has anyone here ever taken part in such a similar test?

Wow... haven't seen it but that is

IN

SANE.

That is Crazy! I really want to watch this unbelievable fighting spirit.

Is this documentary going to be available in DVD? Does anyone know how I can get hold of the documentary??

This remind me of Yamaoka Tesshu sensei's tachigirigeiko.

We do a very toned down version of that sometimes. It usually lasts 20 minutes or so (which is still, at least to me, extremely tiring), it is usually reserved for special occasions such as one member going away (not quitting) or someone's birthday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wark 1978

has anyone here ever taken part in such a similar test?

---

That's called tachi-giri-keiko, I believe. We do it when someone leaves the dojo - he has to fight everyone, in order, from lowest rank to highest. Each segment but the last is timed. The last with sensei goes on for as long as sensei sees fit. We don't judge it, and the usual rules are ignored. You see sweeps, hip tosses, tsuki into the wall, hitting off-target (especially if they fall)... Each new opponent is fresh and under orders to go just as hard as they can during their time limit. Usually it goes for 30-45 minutes. When our sensei left his old dojo, he said it went 90 minutes, and at the end he collapsed. They carried him into the bar. 3 hours is almost beyond belief.

just wondering Neil, how many people did your sensei have to fight?

theres no way i could go for 90 minutes

Most likely this is the tachikiri event they hold on a regular basis in Yuzawa, Akita prefecture. It really seems pretty crazy! The record holder (at least of a couple of years ago) is Iwahori Hide from the Osaka prefectural police - his score was 31 wins, 0 losses, and 2 draws in the 3 hours. As Wark says, you can't speed things up by doing well or doing badly, as there is no time limit on the matches.
There's only one other event I know of that I'd be more scared of, which is another tachikiri event they have at Keishicho. It only lasts for 1 hour, but instead of shiai format, they do kakarigeiko coninuously, for a whole hour, against rotating motodachi. They don't even get a break between motodachi as they change over literally in between strikes. Crazy stuff...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kingofmyrrh

Most likely this is the tachikiri event they hold on a regular basis in Yuzawa, Akita prefecture.

---

unfortunately i couldn't read the kanji saying where it was held but there was a ton a snow around so at first i thought it was in hokkaido.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piggy

just wondering Neil, how many people did your sensei have to fight?

---

About 60, he said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wark 1978

unfortunately i couldn't read the kanji saying where it was held but there was a ton a snow around so at first i thought it was in hokkaido.

---

Well, as you probably know but many might not, Akita is one of the northenmost prefectures of Honshu, so it seems quite likely. FYI, Yuzawa is 湯沢 , Akita is 秋田 . I really wish I'd been able to see that documentary! They often repeat these things, hopefully if I can get out within the month I might just get lucky...

This documentary I think was called, "Hino Kamae (i.e. jodan) de motomeru"

Although I am not a practitioner of Jodan, this was an extremely inspiring documentary. Up to this point, they did not believe, nor did anyone try to challenge doing tachikiri using Jodan. So Ogata Sensei became the first person in the history of that Shiai to finish the tournament against 33 opponents using Jodan.

There was one quote from the documentary that I particularly liked. "Kendo de ningen ni narukotogadekita." [I was able to become the person I am today because of Kendo.]

I think everyone here would probably agree that through Kendo, they were able to experience aspects of personal development or it formed the person they are today.

amatsuda

Please where can I buy this documentary ? gimme gimme gimme ~~~

It was Documentary that was made and broadcast on a local TV station in Akita Prefecture Japan. I don't think that it was ever intended to be sold and distributed...

btw, one more observation on Ogata Sensei...Talk about Kanroku....You see him in plain clothes and also receiving treatment for his injuries and he looks like your typical Japanese father in his late 30s...i.e. slim and not so muscularly defined like Bruce Lee.

However, when he puts the bogu on...Man he looks huge...

amatsuda

at my last dojo, you get a tachikiri for your birthday (or when you have to leave the dojo for whatever reason). of course its only about 1 minute each person and the dojo is only about 15 guys in bogu anyway. but its fun. i remember mine last year fondly... and yes, all the rules are thrown out :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amatsuda

It was Documentary that was made and broadcast on a local TV station in Akita Prefecture Japan. I don't think that it was ever intended to be sold and distributed...

btw, one more observation on Ogata Sensei...Talk about Kanroku....You see him in plain clothes and also receiving treatment for his injuries and he looks like your typical Japanese father in his late 30s...i.e. slim and not so muscularly defined like Bruce Lee.

However, when he puts the bogu on...Man he looks huge...

amatsuda

---

I believe he was 39 when he undertook the challenge. The really scary thing is that apparently he was suffering from a cervical hernia at the time, which ups the challenge level from just plain old super-tough to utterly loony.

Missed seeing the program but...

Living in Iwate for some years now and being right next door to Akita I had always heard about this tachikiri. Iwate has its own, but not on the scale as this one in Yuzawa, Akita. Anyway, through my local kendo federation I was asked if I wanted to participate and represent Iwate this year. I was delighted they had asked! It was an unbelievable experience being on the "karari side" and going against these motodachi. (I did not see the NHK program but I did go up against a jodan only motodachi, maybe the program was about him this year?)

There are rules and timed matches with judging and it's not completely "all-out". However, points are unlimited in 5 minute intervals for three hours. Depending on how many participate, teams of 10 people or more rotate to face the motodachi. Those who are on the kakari side try to get as many points as they can and try not to loose to the motodachi. The motodachi try to get as many points as well and those with the most accumulated points win. The awards are set up by motodachi division and kakari division. Sometimes the winner of the kakari division will end up being next year's motodachi! OUCH!

Anyway it's just amazing to see these motodachi. Believe it or not, after standing for so long the motodachi usually ends up beating a fresh opponent. It is an absolute test of mental strength and endurance, but not impossible with correct training. Just think of it as a kendo marathon.

Women also participate as well. Same rules, but teams of women, and I think just 30 minutes shorter. Again an amzing feat!!!

Well, looking forward to going again next January and YES there's tons of snow!! It's about an hour away from home but I go the night before to crash at a hotspring and drink plenty of sake with other kendoka. In a sense, it's a festival!

Next year's tournament a friend of mine will participate in the women's division. I'm pretty sure she can handle it! She's working hard! Good on her!

Cheers

PS the program was produced by the Akita Prefecture NHK affiliate and probably will be rebroadcast in the future. However, this was a rebroadcast for the second time, so unfortunately chances might be slim. Check the All-Japan Kendo Federation homepage for updates since this rebroadcast info was shown on the main page menu starting a couple of weeks back. http://www.kendo.or.jp/index.html

^^^

Wow. I really wish I could last that long let alone last through a regular dojo practice..... Congratulations on being a participant!

Tim

Thanks for that, Iwatekenshi. Sounds like it's not so brutal as a farewell practice. Usually those have lots of taiatari as the "kakari" side is purposefully trying to tire out the motodachi side. That gets really really tiring. If it's more like constant shiai that's not as bad but 3 hours is still brutally long.

If anyone has it recorded they should release a fan-sub in .torrent format. I see anime fansubs all the time so I think it would be leagal.

Correct me if I'm wrong

As long as it isn't licensed by some company in your home country, yes it is definitely legal.... once a company buys some sort of copyright license so they have some sense of ownership of distributing the anime or most other foreign media, then it is no longer legal.

Although does that really stop anyone.... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neil Gendzwill

Thanks for that, Iwatekenshi. Sounds like it's not so brutal as a farewell practice. Usually those have lots of taiatari as the "kakari" side is purposefully trying to tire out the motodachi side. That gets really really tiring. If it's more like constant shiai that's not as bad but 3 hours is still brutally long.

---

Neil, No problem, glad to be of help. Brutal? Yes, but within the rules of shiai. The kakari do test their limits though, but it is all in good spirit. I was told to give it all I've got. In the end though, it is not entirely different from regular shiai.

It has been mentioned by those who have participated in tachikiri, it is not so much physical strength but attaining that mental state of mu or nothingness of the mind. Physically strained, the mind takes over, and you become more clairvoyant against your opponent. Waza becomes automatic. Tachikiri allows you to experience this transcendental harmony of body and mind. A right of passage to that next level of kendo if you will. A spiritual matter, but every person I have spoken to has mentioned the same thing after being the motodachi in tachikiri.

Is it worth the experience? I have to say yes. With the correct mindset and planned training anything is possible.

Footnote: Nobody I have spoken to has ever volunteered to be motodachi. No need to guess why, but it is an honor to be selected it seems. It is done once a year and only 3 to 4 kenshi are appointed by their onshi (one's former teacher, most often a hachidan) Once chosen you don't turn it down. Happy training!

thanks to amatsuda, kingofmyrrh and iwatekenshi for providing more details about the tachikiri.

iwatekenshi, i'm sure everyone here would like to hear of your experiences in the tachikiri if you do it again next year.

good luck and all the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wark 1978

thanks to amatsuda, kingofmyrrh and iwatekenshi for providing more details about the tachikiri.

iwatekenshi, i'm sure everyone here would like to hear of your experiences in the tachikiri if you do it again next year.

good luck and all the best.

---

No problem,

I will probably participate in the Iwate tachikiri in October so I'll have some news then. Don't know about the Akita tachikiri just yet but will probably go since a friend of mine will be participating.

Cheers!

on sunday we had our clubs summer party. the discussion turned to the tachikiri documentary that this thread is about and many were talking about how amazing it was. one of my senseis, after a few beers and shochu, managed to talk himself into doing tachikiri at our clubs 20th anniversary party which will be held in october with the condition that if he doesn't win any of the fights, he will have to do it all again. he is a 3rd dan so all the clubs 5th, 6th and 7th dans are being kakari just to make sure that he has to do it again. doh!

I'd be interested in laying my hands on a copy of this documentary too! Truly insane!

I believe I have it somewhere in my collection of tapes that my grandmother tapes for my family. If I can find it and get it on the internet somehow I'll be sure to let you all know. It's somewhere in the middle of the Yagyu marathon she taped for us...

On another note, I believe the title was "Hi no Kamae De Motomeru" as amatsuda said. Aghh...I'll try and find it.

Find It !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahahaha, okay, I'm actually up pretty early (in regards to my own time...) so I'll start to look for it ASAP.