seiza
I was told by a Japanese friend that its rude for women to sit cross-legged in a dojo, and instead they can kneel like in seiza, but tuck their legs to one side instead of directly beneath you. Ive been sitting like that when seiza gets too uncomfortable (like when we are all sitting around after training listening to the sensei).
Has anyone else heard of this? Was my friend right? I dont want to pass this sort of info onto any one else if its rubbish.
I don't know about that position. We usually sit in seiza until a sensei directs otherwise. If they say it's okay to get out of seiza, then we sit cross-legged but make sure that our feet are covered by our hakama.
I've sat in seiza so long that once I actually fell back after standing because my feet were so numb that when I thought I was standing on my toes I wasn't, and my foot bent the wrong way. Couple of techniques that I've found work are massaging the blood back into your feet before you try standing and occasionally tensing your quads to shift the weight.
As this is in the women's forum, I feel slightly out of place by posting but I feel I might be able to shed a little bit of light on this. Traditionally, when women wore kimono, they would sit in seiza for as long as possible and, in order to get more comfrotable, would shift and have their legs tucked to one side. Since they were wearing kimono, it was impossible for them to sit in any other position. This idea is carried over to kendo and even though you're wearing hakama. Women in my dojo tend to stay in seiza for as long as they can and don't shift because we're rarely in seiza for more than a few minutes. The rare times we are in seiza for longer, it is expected that the women get comfortable by tucking their legs to one side.
Now that I've finished posting, feel free to blast me for posting here since I'm a guy.
I've never heard of any differing forms of ettiquete in the dojo for women, but I'm also not in Japan. But it isn't considered proper for the kenshi in the dojo I practice at to sit cross legged during the begining and ending rei or practice. If the person in uncomfortable sitting seiza then may sitting kneeling up, and if that doesn't help they may stand.
Sitting with legs crossed is okay during demonstrations and things of that sort, though.
ShinKenshi - feel free to post stuff dude!! You described exactly what I was talking about, shift my legs to the side when Im in seiza for ages, now at least I know why japanese women did it! I find it heaps more comfy than sitting cross legged anyway.
..not to mention more elegant. Legs akimbo is typical for us male slobs.Originally Posted by Alison2805
Its known that women have a much higher threshold for pain than men. See, men have an excuse to sit crosslegged.
Happy is the man who avoids dissension, but how fine is the man who is afflicted and shows endurance.- Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
Actually, from what I've heard women actually have a lower pain threshold than men. We're just better at enduring it.Its known that women have a much higher threshold for pain than men. See, men have an excuse to sit crosslegged.
Ha! Four of you and you still can't take me....Pose.......Ugh, blood and brains, don't want to mess up my saya....Flick....okay, it's clean now.....Noto.......End! //Decado
In my dojo its seiza usually but when it comes to demonstrations that last for quite a while, we're allowed to sit which ever way makes us feel most comfortable.
When a hachidan sensei visits and gives lectures, usually it is HIM who asks people to sit cross-legged first...
Not remembering this clearly, but some research says sitting in seiza for too long will result in poor blood circulation etc, and can hinder the grow of your legs (being short)... or was it getting bow-legged? But that maybe due to a bad posture to start with (like not having your back straight).
Last edited by mingshi; 24th May 2006 at 01:08 AM.
Mingshi (Jenny) Wan - "A thousand suburi a day keeps your bullsh!t away..."
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Generally, in circles of Japanese society who still look at certain social actions as indications of a 'proper' upbringing, It's generally considered improper for women to sit cross legged at all in most settings.
But then again, most of us unwashed slobs are not part of the world's elite clique, so phooey on that, says I!
Even for me a guy, I have to say this: Japanese society is very sexist. Many of them travel abroad and open up to more like today. For me, whatever is good, I learn and whatever is not, I don't. We don't have to follow this and that to the strict point. Just relax. When you are comfy, you can get more concentration and don't have to think only about your numbness.
Numbness is fine, but I can't get up afterwards to keiko if they start with a long winded lectue at the beginning.
Tim
Fall down 7 times, get up 8.
-Some old dude.
You have to trust in something--your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever--because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well- worn path, and that will make all the difference.
-Steve Jobs, Stanford c/o 2005 commencement ceremony.
Thats what I meant, I guess I used the wrong words, you made me feel realy stupid.Actually, from what I've heard women actually have a lower pain threshold than men. We're just better at enduring it.
Happy is the man who avoids dissension, but how fine is the man who is afflicted and shows endurance.- Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
I've had times where my feet have fallen asleep and have been unable to stand after a long lecture. Once my Japanese Sensei sent over some students to help get the blood back into my feet. I felt quite useless...
He suggested moving back onto your toes for a while to help the blood circulate. It works okay for me so maybe give it a try.
Cheers
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