Hard Work vs. Talent

**taganahan** · 31st May 2006, 01:46 AM

as i've posted in another thread, some people who rarely practice(once in every x months) can still beat the snot out of someone who practices 2-3 times a week.

now i'm wondering, can a hard worker really go head to head with someone who has pure talent?

~taganahan

**Genya** · 31st May 2006, 01:54 AM

I believe that if person really wants to get good at kendo and loves practicing it, he/ she can be equal with someone who is just talented. I think it´s useless to go to every practice and just do what you´re told to do if you don´t have desire to do it. You won´t learn anything from that.

**bullet08** · 31st May 2006, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by taganahan

as i've posted in another thread, some people who rarely practice(once in every x months) can still beat the snot out of someone who practices 2-3 times a week.

now i'm wondering, can a hard worker really go head to head with someone who has pure talent?

~taganahan

i think pure talent is really great to have, but hard work will pay off sooner or later. when someone has pure talent, and hard work that's when the things really shine.

since i don't have any talent, everyone bit the snot out of me all the time.

pete

**Neil Gendzwill** · 31st May 2006, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by taganahan

as i've posted in another thread, some people who rarely practice(once in every x months) can still beat the snot out of someone who practices 2-3 times a week.

What, did Phil show up out of the blue and cream you? He's a special case.

**taganahan** · 31st May 2006, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by Neil Gendzwill

What, did Phil show up out of the blue and cream you? He's a special case.

he stopped showing up again,

.

it's quite unfair to compare the teacher against the student.

~taganahan

**Shazzanzzz** · 31st May 2006, 02:15 AM

I'm a firm believer that talent, IQ, intelligence, what not are developed after birth. They are shaped by the experiences you have encountered since you are a baby. Same with attitude. I also think that for kendo, if you have the right attitude and the right guidance is provided, you can be as good as you want to be in kendo. Kendo, when you get right down to it, is about readiness and confidence, and matches are won by your head, not your body. The difference, in my opinion, between people who are considered good or not isn't physical talent or even intelligence, but whither you GET IT or NOT. People who get it see what needs to be done and then just do it. People who doesn't get it either don't see what needs to be done or thinks way too much about what needs to be done. I think that's why people who doesn't practice sometimes seems like they're pure talents.

**Neil Gendzwill** · 31st May 2006, 02:17 AM

Phil has a lot of raw athletic talent but it's also backed up by many years of training. Doesn't take him long to shake off the rust. But there is still a lot of training behind the talent.

Like any other thing, dedication+talent wins over just dedication, but the bottom line is you need the dedication. You can only be the best you can be by trying your hardest - if you are always comparing your progress to someone else, you'll just get bitter. But I've seen many talented people quit, and the less talented slog on and accomplish things for themselves. I'm proof - I'll never play for Canada, but I'm a lot better player than all the others that have quit along the way.

Shazzanzzz, that's a healthy attitude for improving yourself but it's not backed up by the facts. The cold hard reality is that people are born everyday that are built to be faster, stronger and smarter than you or I. Whether they do anything with those gifts is up to them.

**Charlie** · 31st May 2006, 02:58 AM

I'll never play for Canada, but I'm a lot better player than all the others that have quit along the way.

Sums it up nicely. My answer to the initial question is, oh, yeah, training can beat talent and does. Then the talented either train or go wherever it is talented people go - you all got some kind of bar or someplace where you meet on Saturdays to revel in how talented you are?

**Halcyon** · 31st May 2006, 03:09 AM

As with many things in life, 90% of success is just showing up.

**Ignatz** · 31st May 2006, 03:10 AM

I met this old blues guitar player years ago who said "There's lots of folks who can play better than me but I've never heard of anyone who plays like me."

This is somewhat applicable to kendo. There are many, many, many kendo players out there who are better than me but when the crusty old, over the hill, decrepit, yet still movie star handsome, geezer steps onto the court, they know they are going to have to fight for the win and if they don't pay very, very close attention something bad will happen to them.

**JBouch** · 31st May 2006, 04:40 AM

I agree with a lot of what's already been said. The only thing I would say that is a little different is that I see talent and hard work as complimenting each other in a very direct way. I think each person will have a certain degree of talent, either in their general affinity or in being closer to a physical ideal, for a given action. That talent creates the foundation for the potential a person can achieve in the action. However, only hard work allows you to achieve the fullest potential. On top of this, I see dedication as increasing one's potential; by training the mind to focus in new ways while placing the body under a consistent regimine of stress, we can gain both a mental affinity and a physical advantage.

It's partly for that reasoning that I don't ever sell myself short - I feel I can always draw more out from myself. I made it to AUSKF nationals once, but lost in the first round. Now, I'm older and amid a lot tougher competition. Even so, I won't discount the chance that I could get back to the same stage and see a lot more success for myself.

**Paburo** · 31st May 2006, 08:16 AM

imho an important talent is being able to absorb what the sensei has to tell you, and take it down to your roots. i see many ppl who attend all the classes but they do stuff like robots, thus they improve very slowly.

on the other hand, there are some who though training less days per week/month, learn very quick, and put in practice all theyve been learning from every sensei.

so as i see it, the talent to be able to squeeze the very last drop of each keiko and learn fast, perhaps is better than just going there and working 'hard' but aimless...

**Auricom22** · 31st May 2006, 09:15 AM

Not much raw talent at work here, and on my way home from Cleveland I was so frustrated that utilizing my bogu and shinai for a marshmallow roast seemed an excellent idea. Haven't been back to practice since.

But oddly enough I never stopped training at home. Then I watched the family tournament here in MI and realized that it doesn't matter how quickly I move down this path so long as I keep walking. So tomorrow I'm going back to practice, and will take another step.

**Bennosuke** · 31st May 2006, 12:04 PM

As an optimistic youth I feel that any one who is dedicated can go very far, and can often trump natural athletic talent. It also depends on what you consider a good kendo player to be, and what you consider natural talent.
If you consider the twenty somethings who compete internationally to be the best, then natural talent is very important. But if you consider the fifty to eighty year old hachi dans to better, then natural strength or speed has very little to do with it anymore. They reach the levels they do because they make the actions of kendo natural to them, and thus don't have to work as hard, and can thus start to achieve a higher mental level. This is only accomplished through hard work, although you could argue that they have a natural talent to work hard, or to learn things faster.

My opinion is that because we all live, we all pick up our own natural talents as we develop. We might be born faster or smarter or stronger, but there are very few people who are good at everthing. The best kendo players are those who apply their aquired natural talents to their kendo.