kendo vs kumdo

[sminki]

Like i said Karaken, "I have no idea", my post was more to say that if those of Korean descent felt that they where practicing kumdo as part of a korean sword tradition, who am i to say they arnt? There was never any doubt that kumdo borrows the shinai and bogu etc from Japanese kendo, its their philosophy and techniques they are claiming have a different root than that of kendo.

I believe the Hwa rand Do have 108 classical weapons in their system.

Lastly, (I'm not disputing with Nishi but just making a point). If Koreans who practice kendo/kumdo (I really don't like differentiating the two as they're really the same) think "Well, we've sort of borrowed the equipment but our philosophy and root are different because we had swords first." Does that make sense? What if the Brits who practice kendo all of a sudden say "well, we're using Japanese bogu, but we would like to put our own spin as we had knighthood and advanced armor, etc. Let's change the hakama to knickers (what Americans call the puffy pants with knee-high socks. don't know what they're actually called in the U.K.) and change the men-gane to a all-steel helmet with just a little slat to look out of", what does that become? Is that an acceptable way of practicing kendo? To put "your own" spin on it and changing tens if not hundreds of years of tradition and claim ownership?

Just a thought.

[Karaken]

Lastly, (I'm not disputing with Nishi but just making a point). If Koreans who practice kendo/kumdo (I really don't like differentiating the two as they're really the same) think "Well, we've sort of borrowed the equipment but our philosophy and root are different because we had swords first." Does that make sense? What if the Brits who practice kendo all of a sudden say "well, we're using Japanese bogu, but we would like to put our own spin as we had knighthood and advanced armor, etc. Let's change the hakama to knickers (what Americans call the puffy pants with knee-high socks. don't know what they're actually called in the U.K.) and change the men-gane to a all-steel helmet with just a little slat to look out of", what does that become? Is that an acceptable way of practicing kendo? To put "your own" spin on it and changing tens if not hundreds of years of tradition and claim ownership?

Just a thought.

On the other hand, it might have been an attempt to popularize Kendo in Korea. As you know, for a long period ( till late 80s or more ) Koreans did not like anything Japanese. So, for Kendo to survive an flourish in Korea, it may have been necessary to dress it up as authentic Korean.
Oh BTW, most of dojang (dojo) in Korea is run as business not by volunteer sensei. So getting a lot of student is very important.

What do you think?

Center..

[slidercrank]

Oh BTW, most of dojang (dojo) in Korea is run as business not by volunteer sensei. So getting a lot of student is very important.

What do you think?

Center..

This is the same in North America, no? Other than university clubs, every kumdo dojang I see has its own place and offers classes multiple times a day on multiple days, whereas a kendo dojo rents some place for 1 or 2 nights a week. As such, a kumdo student might train 1 hour a day but 3 or 4 days a week, whereas a kendo student trains once a week in a 3-hr session. The Korean approach seems to benefit a beginner more, from what I see in tournaments...

Also I notice that even on internet, Koreans seem to put a lot more effort into "digitizing" kendo. You see these Korean kumdo sites that offer an amazing amount of footages for downloading, and you hardly ever see any Japanese kendo sites doing the same thing. Not only that, Korean kumdo footages often have accompanying dramatic soundtracks, whereas Japanese kendo clips usualy have nothing but a shinai swinging around...

All in all, being a non-Korean, I find this unbounded enthusiasm very interesting. At the very least, they have the dramatic progress in tournament success to show for it. How close they came to winning the team championship this year!

[Old Warrior]

At our dojang there are 3 classes a week in 3 separate time slots and a 2 hour class on Sat. If you are really into it, you can attend 4 classes a week. And yes, Master Seong puts out a lot of stuff in his web site, although most of it is in Korean. http://kumdo.co.kr/kendoacademy/

[taiwnezboi]

At our dojang you can practice 6 days a week if you want, sometimes even all 7 days ^^

[Nishi]

If i had my way, i would practice monday thru thursday for a good hour & 15mins every night, and two hours on sunday. My dream of having a non-profit dojo where i could do this will one day be realised, it is a goal ive set.....

Good point Slider, ive not noticed the amount of kumdo profit orientated buisness's out there as apposed to the non-profit kendo clubs, most (not all) mudo do-jang are like this now i think about it....

[kendomushi]

Nishi,
Just come to Japan. Our club on Yokota Air Base (U.S. Forces) is strictly volunteer. Students only pay to test with the kendo renmei

[Nishi]

Hi kendomushi, it would be nice to be free from alot of obligations and just train and enjoy family and friends(dreaming). I dont mind paying to be part of a club, in fact i believe everyone who can contribute should. I just couldnt feel good about myself living off the art, or selling it. Financial contributions or dojo fees should be strictly for the survival of the dojo and its humble progress. Unless your fortunate to be part of a club like yourself, or some of the large japanese company dojo (i dont know if they charge a fee?)

P.S. Wouldnt i have to join united states airforce to train with you?...LOL!!

[kendomushi]

Joining the forces isn't necessary. Having a valid form of ID to enter the base and a military ID card holder to sponsor you is. That is how I get sensei into the base every time. Its like entering a bloody foriegn country. lol

[dorkusxmaximus]

Entering a bloody foreign country in a foreign country...sounds like a hassle...I think I'm going to join a local dojo when I go there.

[Old Warrior]

"I just couldnt feel good about myself living off the art, or selling it."

Why not? I get to attend class 4 days a week at a cost of less than $10 per class. My teacher is a well known, distinguished, 7th Dan, who is at the dojang 6 days a week. The school is in a local shopping center 6 minutes from my home. The Master is accessable and friendly. The commercial aspect creates a relationship where he goes the extra mile for his students and we contribute to his support. There's enough students to make the deal work for everyone. The cost of classes might break the piggybank of a student, but for a working adult the cost is modest and it compares to the cost of the music lessons my wife and I gave to our children. I see no reason to "look down your nose" at a commercial enterprise that teaches quality Kendo to those who pay to belong.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I see no reason to "look down your nose" at a commercial enterprise that teaches quality Kendo to those who pay to belong.

It's a cultural thing. Most of the Japanese teachers are volunteers, most of us have learned our kendo in a volunteer environment and are now ourselves paying through our own volunteer efforts. So when people come along and make a business of it, it's a little jarring. By all acounts your instructor is a skilled and reputable guy who is certainly within his rights to charge for his expertise. There's a difference between volunteering two nights/week at the Y and teaching full-time, and everyone is entitled to their living. However we've seen what's happened with TKD and other martial arts and are wary of anything that may be a step along the path to a mcdojo approach, with charges for every test (and a lot of tests), inflated instructor ranks, etc.

I do have to say that your fees are pretty steep, even by commercial martial arts studio standards (around $US 150/month, if I understand your post).

[Old Warrior]

Neil

In Bergen County, New Jersey rents are typically $20+ per sq. ft. plus utilities, plus common area charges. I cringe at what the liability insurance must cost. I don't think it is commentary on the art if one chooses to pay for the privilege of learning. I had a visit at the dojang from one of the posters to this board, last Sat. (a Nidan I believe) He commented that the amount of attention I got was unprecedented. From my perspective, given the cost, I wouldn't have expected any less. The fact that there are profiteers, doesn't mean that someone who has 30 years into Kendo, who opens his school at 9:30 AM and closes it at 9PM, shouldn't be well compensated for his work.

[Nishi]

I only require a hardwood floor, reasonable equipment, and others with a will to learn, thats just me. I will fence in a third world dojo, and an upper class dojo, again, i dont care. I woulnt pay thru the nose for kendo tuition, and I would never charge thru the nose, again just my opinion.

I think kendo (like Neil said), traditionaly passes its teaching down the way it was recieved, and for me, it hasnt cost much, and i will put it back the way i found it, thats the motivation for my earlier comment.

If somebody wants to earn money from the art, so be it. I choose to be free of financial obligation and offer the art to eveyone who comes to it, rich, poor or bankrupt.....thats my kendo!

[Neil Gendzwill]

The fact that there are profiteers, doesn't mean that someone who has 30 years into Kendo, who opens his school at 9:30 AM and closes it at 9PM, shouldn't be well compensated for his work.

I don't think I said that your instructor was doing anything wrong, just pointing out why some people may raise an eyebrow.