Do Americans believe they didn't lose the Vietnam war?

[IRJ]

Just yesterday night I had a friend over and he brought some of his friends from Harvard who were up here for a party of some kind. We were just having a chill conversation when I made some sort of crack like "yeah, the same way you lost of the Vietnam war", after which the Americans got very defensive and said "we didn't lose, we just withdrew."

I must say, I was completely speechless at first, then jokingly said, "sure, you just withdrew" with a laugh and they started getting mad "we just withdrew,etc."

Is this a common belief in the US? Is this actually taught at school or just some kind of Republican conspiracy theory?

[xvikingx]

Republican conspiracy?....

As far as I know we lost. Everyone else I've talk with about the matter would most likely agree. I always hear the most interesting stories about Americans. Seems that all the Americans with very askewed views like to travel. Maybe they should have an IQ test for passports.

[nodachi]

The way I was taught was that it was not a loss and it was not a win. There were so many things going on at that time both in Vietnam and with all the issues going on concerning the war at home in the US, that it all gets mixed up. Win and loss gets very blurred through all that. History is not my strong point at all, but because of the cultural bias of the textbooks for the US, I doubt any conflict would be taught as a defeat unless we were clearly and definitively driven out of the country.

Pardon my vague response, high school history classes are not the top thing in my memory bank, although I know it is to my detriment today.

[IRJ]

Well those sound like reassuring responses so far. I'd hoped that this was just an isolated case.

[Old Warrior]

Those who served and faced the enemy do not believe it was a loss. Those who gauge the result on the temporary geopolitical resolution must concede it was a failure. Those who look at the westernization of Viet Nam, as it exists today and the fall of Communism throughout the world - aren't sure what to make of it.

[Ares2907]

Maybe this will help:
Excerpt from Red Dwarf:

Rimmer:
Perhaps you'd like to explain to me why it is that every major battle in history has been won by the side with the shortest haircuts?

Kryten:
Oh, surely not, sir!

Rimmer:
Think about it, why did the U.S. Cavalry beat the Indian nation? Short back and sides versus girly hippy locks. The Cavaliers and the Roundheads? One-nil to the pudding-basins. Vietnam: crew cuts both sides, no score draw.

[kendomushi]

Having served 15 years in the US forces, and in my school days, I have only seen it portrayed as a loss. That based on the fact that the communists took power and a supposedly democratic and friendly to US interests state was lost.
Why we lost, who is to blame, etc. is still debated, but it was a loss plain and simple.

[JSchmidt]

On the military side, the US was largely victorious...on the political side, though, it was a defeat, which caused the whole war to be lost.

Jakob

[lewis]

My study leans me towards JSchmidt's answer. Most major conflicts were victories for the US. Politically, it was a disaster. And judging from the vietnam vets that still beg from the stoplights of Denver, I'd say they didn't win anything.

[iwatekenshi]

Originally posted by lewis
My study leans me towards JSchmidt's answer. Most major conflicts were victories for the US. Politically, it was a disaster. And judging from the vietnam vets that still beg from the stoplights of Denver, I'd say they didn't win anything.

Uh oh if the above statement has some validity then Iraq is going in the same direction? Let's hope not!

[dorkusxmaximus]

I say we lost because if we didn't lose. Then why is Vietnam a communist country today?Hmm didn't we withdraw because of the protests that were going on??? Yeahh I remember now from reading history books-or was it talking to people? Because of the pressure from a lot of Americans, the government had no choice but to withdraw. Power to the people!

[JSchmidt]

" Power to the people!"

Almost, but not entirely. Some of it was also due to power-plays between the US and USSR. Add on top of that that the US was supporting a highly corrupt goverment, which wasn't especially popular, it was never going to be easy.

In Iraq, that's unlikely to happen. There's no opposing superpower supplying whatever resistance there is. There is perhaps a small danger that should the political backlash from lack of WMD's, combined with troops continually being engaged on a small scale, but if the UK/US pulls out within the next year, they will have gained nothing and the country will quickly turn into something worse than it was under Saddam.
I did not support the way the leadup to the war was conducted, but now that it's happened, they *have* to stay and sort it out.

Jakob

[dorkusxmaximus]

you just gave me something to say to the liberals at my school.

[JSchmidt]

Well, it can very well end up hurting the Republicans, if (and that's still an 'if', even if I lean in that direction), it turns out that Bush mislead about the reasons for going to war.
In terms of the UK, none of the opposing parties really have anything to offer at all, so it's more likely that if it goes that far there, Blair will be replaced by another Labour leader.
Both Bush and Blair are currently talking about how 'history will remember them for doing the right thing'..but I suspect history will also remember them doing it for the wrong reasons.

Jakob

[KhawMengLee]

Sounds like they were trying to copy Ole' Churchie's line but didn't have the balls to go all the way.

"History will be kind to me...I intend to write it!"

Maybe they should get all the civilians who lost relatives and loved ones to supposed "mistakes" made by coalition forces into a room with Bush and Blair. Lets see how they can justify the war then, eh?

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Back on topic; well economically its rediculous, wasn't it something like over 100,000USD per enemy casualty in Vietnam. I think its about the same here.