Marking Kendo-gear (bogu and shinai/bokuto)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Using kanji phonetically makes about as much sense as... well, something that doesn't make much sense, sorry no spappy analogy. Mark your shinai with whatever you want, but if you want Japanese people to read it and understand it, use katakana.

[Kingofmyrrh]

Using kanji phonetically makes about as much sense as... well, something that doesn't make much sense, sorry no spappy analogy. Mark your shinai with whatever you want, but if you want Japanese people to read it and understand it, use katakana.

Never was a truer word said! Still, it's what we've come to expect after 5000 (!!!!!!!) posts!

[groms]

namabiru, thanks for looking into it.
Yes, for marking gear it seems most of you think katakana the way to go, so I think I´ll use that. However, it would be interesting to see my kanji name. Neil Gendzwill; if not phonetically, do you mean one would have to find the meaning of one´s name to write it correctly in kanji? Then it would make sense that non-japanese would have difficulties, since it would be pronounced differently. Are japanese names always based on an understandable meaning? (as in "base-of-mountain" and such, seen in the wikipedia-article?) Western-culture names are often not, at least not in words we would use today.
As mentioned earlier, my last name, Gjerde, means fence. (named after a small village with the same name). I´ve also heard my first name, Gunnar, is based upon the same meaning as the english word "gunner" (rifleman), and that the closest word for it´s earliest meaning is, in norwegian, "stridsmann". Translated to english, war-man, or more correctly, warrior. Don´t know if that helps, though, since it will not be pronounced the same in japanese.
Maybe there are some on this forum with non-japanese names written in kanji. Would anyone shed some light on this? What are your kanji names based on?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Neil Gendzwill; if not phonetically, do you mean one would have to find the meaning of one´s name to write it correctly in kanji?

Unless you have a Japanese, Chinese, Korean etc name, there is no way to write it correctly in kanji. Write it phonetically using katakana.

Maybe there are some on this forum with non-japanese names written in kanji.

There are, and we've had this discussion many times before with regard to zekken. Of them, I'll say that just because people don't tell you directly something is goofy, doesn't mean they aren't thinking it.

[groms]

Katakana it is, then. That´s what my zekken will have anyway, so I´ll stick with that. It sounds like the thread is turning into something that has been discussed before. Thanks for advice, to those who have posted.

[kartoffelngeist]

Of them, I'll say that just because people don't tell you directly something is goofy, doesn't mean they aren't thinking it.

More very wise words from Neil...

[Big One]

Funny is I have a Chinese friend, his name is Fuk Yue

[namabiru]

Then you go right on thinking me goofy. Quite a few people do for other reasons, but it's more fun to be proud to be different.

My kanji was not a quick-glance through the kanji jiten choice made by drunk gaijin at the karaoke place. My kanji was a gift from 3 of my Japanese teammates, who spent hours texting one another with ideas, as well as conferring with other mothers in the dojo, before presenting me with ideas. A lot of people I care about provided input on my name, so I will wear it proudly.

My name, 慈志香, partially speaks to my name meaning, but also speaks to my personality as well. Jessica is Hebrew, and supposedly means 'God's grace'. The first kanji, 慈, is found in the word 'itsukushimu', which roughly means 'affectionate', or 'kindness'. You find it in words such as 'jiai', 'jibo', 'jihi', etc. The second kanji, 志, is found in 'kokorozashi' and 'kokorozasu' and means 'ambitious'. Gendai shin kokugo jiten defines kokorozasu as あるところを目あてにして進む, which I'd translate as 'to move to a goal with purpose'. The third kanji, 香, corresponds with 'scent', or 'perfume'. The woman's name Kaori is often written just with this kanji. In the Japanese sense, placing 香 at the end of a name makes the name quite feminine as it means mere suggestions of the previous kanji' quality rather than a full-out assigning. My former colleague, who I'd describe as being very in-tune with kanji (his writing is beautiful, so he always got stuck doing the formal writing for other people in the office), pointed to this name and exclaimed, "I love this!". He's a westernized bilingual, and if having a kanji name were inappropriate, he would have told me so. You say tatemae, I say no it wasn't. Without getting into everything, he and I went through a lot together in 2 years of working together, so there was a level of truth not found with other co-workers.

Not that some didn't think it weird for the gaijin to have kanji, mind you. Then again, those people thought anything a gaijin did, from eating with chopsticks at lunch to even eating the lunch to begin with since it had rice and Americans supposedly eat bread while Japanese eat rice, was strange. But what can you do?

Balance and meaning are important. However, sometimes parents will choose kanji they like, but assign another reading to it. This doesn't happen so much. Take the names of two women I know, 洋香 and 亜香子。 No one would probably guess they are read 'Haruka' and 'Akane'. The 'Haru', of course, is not usually represented by 洋, and a reading of 'Ne' for 子, in a country which used to name all its girls nani-nani-ko, is also unusual.

[hammu]

hi there~ I just pass by and see what happen here~ a little suggestion~ instead of using all the part of your name which is gun-na-ru, why don't you try just using gun which the kanji is 軍, it mean army~ sounds cool though~
there is no combination between gun-na-ru in kanji, you still can make it, but it will sounds funny~

[namabiru]

Yeah, I was thinking he could use the 軍 gun kanji too. Originally, I was wondering, though, if the army or militaristic nature of the kanji would make it sort of 'okashii' (funny). I looked up the list of forbidden name kanji (obviously kanji that mean 'rape', 'death', 'cancer', etc. surpass the okashii label and aren't used), and it's not on there. In truth, any of the joyo (everyday) kanji are acceptable, as is an extra list of jinmeiyo kanji.

Since Gunnar means 'warrior', it would *seem* fitting. However, seeing it in a name, though, is a bit stange. I really don't think it would be too appropriate, as it has connotations of fighting. But it's Gunnar's kanji, not mine. I looked in a couple of Japanese name books, though, and didn't find this kanji ever being used.

I dunno, I've done a bit of looking as part of my kanji study, and it's that 'gu' or 'gun' which kind of throws a monkey wrench into things. The second kanji *could* be 成, which is read as the 'na' in 'naru', or in a name quite often as 'nari'. Incidentally, this is the same 成 in Narita Airport (成田). It means 'to become' or 'to take form'.

It's tough, even if you have a newborn Japanese baby 'fresh out of the oven', to use a terrible analogy--I chose that one because I just realized I had better go check my dinner, which is cooking in the oven...

[enkorat]

I've realized that there is one other thing that we haven't really touched on that is worth some degree of consideration.

A sempai friend of mine (who lurks here but doesn't normally post) and I were having a similar discussion. He told me this story of his experience, and I hope I do it sufficent justice.

When he started kendo, he came to kendo through the historical reenactment scene. Having been in this scene, he had a "character name" with an achingly well researched (as is with most reenactors and their hobby), historically accurate name. In this other hobby he was known and referred by this name.

For several years he continued to do both historical reenactment and kendo with this name, and he competed in competitions and took promotional examinations with this name. But soon his interest in Kendo changed from "something of a lark to do in addition to reenactment" to "Kendo as something very interesting and serious on its own" It was around this time that I asked him to help out with our (at the time fledgling) club in an assistant coach/mentor role. He related to me that he decided the chosen name that
he had been using up to that point was only for the "role", and that as he progressed he realized he was no longer comfortable using an assumed name as he accepted more responsibility in the training of others, and his name publicly appeared on things like our website.

At that point when he attempted to test using his real name in katakana, there an (unexpected) issue with the testing boards, because changing names on an official (though perhaps not legal) document such as a menjo other than marriage apparently requires extensive explanation. Letters had to be written and positions explained rather thoroughly.

My own opinion and de facto policy of our club has been that Kendo 'naming' especially on a zekken is for identification purposes, primarily when one is competing, representing our club, our teammates, instructors and our university. Many beginners in our club help out at tournaments before they get into bogu, and many of our members don't read Japanese or Chinese. There have been a number of times I've heard of stories where the people writing the scoreboards or trying to chase down a competitor for a ring can't find someone because they can't read a zekken, or that the name used for the application doesn't correspond to the zekken because the zekken is a different name in kanji.

Logistical issues aside, although I understand that there is a tradition of naming that is important and seems appealing to some non-Japanese because of the 'coolness' factor, it always feels to me like those people who initially choose to adopt Japanese names end up "hiding" their real identity a little, and assuming a "costume" while doing Kendo. Its hard to explain. Like the Japanese 'trappings' of Kendo are more important than the real, fun stuff. Its like we spend all this time and energy debating the appropriatesness of names and kamon and stuff, and it doesn't even begin to touch what kendo is really about or what makes it really interesting.

I think part of my perspecitve is that a lot of other martial arts try to hide things or to have tricks built into their history and structure. Kendo for the most part has felt more straight forward and honest. In that same vein we should all be proud of our real family names and the history attacted to each of our families, and be proud in our own nationalities. Would the people who want to adopt a Japanese name feel the same way if everyone was "forced" to get a Japanese name because of "tradition", like say sumo?

Regardless I think when we go out to compete, or to test, or to teach, we should hold ourselves accountable in public for our actions, and not 'hide' behind some name someone pulled out a dictionary and isn't really yours.

Just my $0.02

[hammu]

hehehe, it seems to be a tradition to have katagana and kanji in zekken~ for the country which have people that can't read kanji or katagana, like mine^^ we have both kanji/katagana and english name written in the zekken. and yeah we do have to use our own name to compete or test~ and I agree with enkorat, don't hide your own name. It's an honor to fight with your own name.

[namabiru]

I've realized that there is one other thing that we haven't really touched on that is worth some degree of consideration.

A sempai friend of mine (who lurks here but doesn't normally post) and I were having a similar discussion. He told me this story of his experience, and I hope I do it sufficent justice.

When he started kendo, he came to kendo through the historical reenactment scene. Having been in this scene, he had a "character name" with an achingly well researched (as is with most reenactors and their hobby), historically accurate name. In this other hobby he was known and referred by this name.

For several years he continued to do both historical reenactment and kendo with this name, and he competed in competitions and took promotional examinations with this name. But soon his interest in Kendo changed from "something of a lark to do in addition to reenactment" to "Kendo as something very interesting and serious on its own" It was around this time that I asked him to help out with our (at the time fledgling) club in an assistant coach/mentor role. He related to me that he decided the chosen name that
he had been using up to that point was only for the "role", and that as he progressed he realized he was no longer comfortable using an assumed name as he accepted more responsibility in the training of others, and his name publicly appeared on things like our website.

At that point when he attempted to test using his real name in katakana, there an (unexpected) issue with the testing boards, because changing names on an official (though perhaps not legal) document such as a menjo other than marriage apparently requires extensive explanation. Letters had to be written and positions explained rather thoroughly.

My own opinion and de facto policy of our club has been that Kendo 'naming' especially on a zekken is for identification purposes, primarily when one is competing, representing our club, our teammates, instructors and our university. Many beginners in our club help out at tournaments before they get into bogu, and many of our members don't read Japanese or Chinese. There have been a number of times I've heard of stories where the people writing the scoreboards or trying to chase down a competitor for a ring can't find someone because they can't read a zekken, or that the name used for the application doesn't correspond to the zekken because the zekken is a different name in kanji.

Logistical issues aside, although I understand that there is a tradition of naming that is important and seems appealing to some non-Japanese because of the 'coolness' factor, it always feels to me like those people who initially choose to adopt Japanese names end up "hiding" their real identity a little, and assuming a "costume" while doing Kendo. Its hard to explain. Like the Japanese 'trappings' of Kendo are more important than the real, fun stuff. Its like we spend all this time and energy debating the appropriatesness of names and kamon and stuff, and it doesn't even begin to touch what kendo is really about or what makes it really interesting.

I think part of my perspecitve is that a lot of other martial arts try to hide things or to have tricks built into their history and structure. Kendo for the most part has felt more straight forward and honest. In that same vein we should all be proud of our real family names and the history attacted to each of our families, and be proud in our own nationalities. Would the people who want to adopt a Japanese name feel the same way if everyone was "forced" to get a Japanese name because of "tradition", like say sumo?

Regardless I think when we go out to compete, or to test, or to teach, we should hold ourselves accountable in public for our actions, and not 'hide' behind some name someone pulled out a dictionary and isn't really yours.

Just my $0.02

This was a really interesting post. Thank you for sharing it with us! Interestingly enough, when I tested in Oita, I had to write the moshikomi 3 times, as they decided I should put western years for my birthdate as well as write my name in romaji and not katakana. Wonder if it was so there wouldn't be trouble when I inevitably tested in the States. My kanji isn't legal by any means--I still had to fill out various governmental moshikomi using my katakana.

You really bring up valid points, though, as far as most non-Japanese people not being able to read Japanese, so the kanji would be obscure. I guess I thought that that was sort of why the kenshi's last name goes at the bottom of the zekken in romaji--that way the kenshi's last name could be identified, and on the score cards you can go by last name. If there is another reason, let me know, because I'm going on assumption.

And it's not that I'm not proud of my first set of names by any means. It's just that, out of respect for my 'Japanese family', I also carry my kanji. That's just me. When I write notes to people, quite often I sign both--my name and my kanji.

But it is a very thoughtful caution to people, to not just randomly pull names out of dictionaries *without* thinking of meaning.

Interestingly enough, ian Japan, the concept of non-Japanese Asians having kanji for their name is also mind-blowing to a lot of people. My Taiwanese friend has kanji, and it was a huge fight with them when he wanted to use his own chop, which was official and the correct size, as well as his first/last name kanji to represent his name. He had to use katakana. Another story to show you that sometimes Japanese people can really be closed-minded.

Me, personally, I don't like the look of huge things of katakana across a zekken. It doesn't help that I have a long last name and long first name either, so it looks cluttered. So that's why, when I'm at a dojo long enough to buy a zekken, I'll put my kanji and then last name at the bottom. Personal taste.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Me, personally, I don't like the look of huge things of katakana across a zekken.

It's not there to look nice. It serves a function - to allow Japanese people to read your name. It should be the same as the romaji across the bottom.

[groms]

It's not there to look nice. It serves a function - to allow Japanese people to read your name. It should be the same as the romaji across the bottom.

Isn´t that a bit different form dojo to dojo? At least, in my dojo, we use first name in katakana vertically, and last name in romanji at the bottom...