Not a target

[Aries]

Thought I'd share this with some fellow ladies that practice MA, as its been on my mind for a while now.

When girls play sports, or practice MA, we are more aware of our bodies and it puts us in a differnt mental state about ourselves, (really helpfull during puberty and development). We usually are more confident and self assured. Characterisitcs that make us "not targets", since generally attackers go after people they can overpower and control. We are more aware of how to protect ourselves as girls.
And I had always been satisfied with that much, all of the stories you hear on the news, all the statistics.. never really felt like it applied to me, as I know how to keep myself out of those situations, and hopefully will never have to be in it.
But then someone I know was hurt in cruel way, and suddenly it wasn't enough to be safe myself, it wasn't another story, this hit home.
My inital reaction was anger. I was angry at the asshole that would do such a thing top someone truely defensless in mind and body, and I was more angry at those people who should have taught her even the basics of what can happen to her as a woman. I'm still angry that she's so afraid to tell becasue she's afraid they'll blame her. and I'm angry that she believes its her fault.
But underneath it, I was angry becasue I felt helpless to have not been able to do anythng for her, and because there is no way to really repair any damage to her mind and body without any more pain.

I've only felt this sort of helplessness when my grandfather was in intensive care before he passed away.

Things are being taken care of to the best they can be handled at this point, but it doesn't change the urge to seriously hurt the guy. If you ask me, death is not enough.

[David]

Sorry to hear about your friend, but I somewhat disagree with part of your post.

When girls play sports, or practice MA, we are more aware of our bodies and it puts us in a differnt mental state about ourselves, (really helpfull during puberty and development). We usually are more confident and self assured. Characterisitcs that make us "not targets", since generally attackers go after people they can overpower and control. We are more aware of how to protect ourselves as girls.

Don't take this the wrong way, but just the fact that you are a woman makes you a target. Your average, every-day mugger/attacker is not going to care about how confident and self-assured you are. Chances are, they'll be picking their target on purely physical appearence. Most muggers/attackers are men. If a man is desperate enough that he has to steal from someone, he's gonna make damn sure that he's gonna try and attack someone that he can physically overpower. Someone smaller then them, and who they believe is going to be weaker as well. To alot of men (not all of us), this automatically means a woman, because generally, men are physically stronger then women, and usually a little bit bigger.

Also, it's a given that a person with MA training, be they man or woman, is going to have a much better chance of survival against an attacker or mugger using a knife or some other type of meele weapon then someone who doesn't, but it won't matter much if the attacker has a gun, which there's a good chance they will.

[Aries]

maybe it doesnt matter to attackers, but knowing how your own body feels and recognizing when its being violated makes a huge difference.

though, I had plugged that confidence thing as a reference to what my friend who has worked for years in the security field had told me before, and I find to make sense: You can tell the way someone carries themself if they will put up a fight when you attack them.
When you walk around liek a scared mouse, then its apparent that you'll easily be over come.
with all due respect, i don't know the mind of criminals, but rape is conciderably differnt than simply being mugged

exucse me if i don't elaborate on the circumstances, but leagally I can't disclose the specifics.

[Alison2805]

Sorry to hear about your friend, but I somewhat disagree with part of your post.

Don't take this the wrong way, but just the fact that you are a woman makes you a target. Your average, every-day mugger/attacker is not going to care about how confident and self-assured you are. Chances are, they'll be picking their target on purely physical appearence. Most muggers/attackers are men. If a man is desperate enough that he has to steal from someone, he's gonna make damn sure that he's gonna try and attack someone that he can physically overpower. Someone smaller then them, and who they believe is going to be weaker as well. To alot of men (not all of us), this automatically means a woman, because generally, men are physically stronger then women, and usually a little bit bigger.

Also, it's a given that a person with MA training, be they man or woman, is going to have a much better chance of survival against an attacker or mugger using a knife or some other type of meele weapon then someone who doesn't, but it won't matter much if the attacker has a gun, which there's a good chance they will.

Actually, Aries is right. Its a proven fact that the scuzbags who prey on women will pick someone who looks vulnerable, not just any female who walks past. My university used to have spates of attaks on women in car parks. The advice from the police was "dont walk alone, dont go to dark areas etc, but if you find yourself in that situation: walk confidently".

All the attackers were caught because the girls went straight to the police. If they didnt, more girls would have been attacked. Although a guilt trip isnt the thing your friend needs right now (she needs counselling), if she doesnt say something she is in fact encouraging him to do it again. She might feel bad now, but she will feel worse when someone else has to go through the same thing because he is still on the streets.

I hope she gets enough confidence to fight back.

[Kenmei]

It's good to feel confident overly in control of yourself, but attackers would never notice that. Alison is right. Women should never walk alone especially in the evening or night times, should not go to dark areas. Always try and walk with someone that you know when doing something, groups discourage attackers.

Also I'd like to state that I've also had friends who have been attacked. What's different about my situation is that my friends were all male. When living in Beijing, China my friend was going home and was about to take the shuttle bus back, two men mugged him and took all his money. Another incident was with my friend Daniel's father, who was threatened with syringes to give up his money.

[Kirinhale]

I've also heard carrying an umbrella makes you less of a target

[pgsmith]

It's good to feel confident overly in control of yourself, but attackers would never notice that.

That is an incorrect statement. Allison is absolutely correct when she says

Its a proven fact that the scuzbags who prey on women will pick someone who looks vulnerable, not just any female who walks past.

The vast majority of muggers and rapists do NOT wish to attract unwanted attention. This is the same reason that the police departments advise women to fight back as hard and loudly as possible if attacked. Simply looking like more trouble than you're worth is usually sufficient to discourage most attackers. They are looking for victims, not challenges. If you look timid and scared, they will see a victim. If you look aggressive and confident, they will see a challenge. These are well documented facts, and are generally taught in any women's self-defense course.

[kim]

"It's good to feel confident overly in control of yourself, but attackers would never notice that."
I have been practising martial arts for over 20 years and in that time the most important lesson i've learnt is that there is always some one bigger, faster or just plain meaner than myself . Self defence is just that. If you can,.run away .if you can't,. fight like hell...I try not to get myself into a situations where i may have to defend myself.A few years ago I was attacked in the street by a compleat stranger.I was bleeding in shock and had to decide in an instant what i had to do.. I fought back and made myself safe.There was no question of winning or losing.It was only after when the police came that i could acess weather or not i had done the right thing.The attacker didn't know me and i certanly didn't know them. confidence may of made me a little too trusting in my abillity as a martial artist? maybe i would of been attacked anyway? These are all questions i have the privlege of bieng able to ask myself after the event. Without martial training who knows.

[bullet08]

best option is not to make yourself a target. meaning, avoid places that might cause issues. always walk with friends.. and so on. even then, things might happen. always remember, don't finish the job half way. make sure the bastard stays down long enough for you to get police on the scene. or at least long enough for you to go home and lock all the doors.

sometime age, one of the college kid around here was attacked. she fought back and got away, but she didn't make sure the attacker stayed down long enough. the attacker followed her and killed her. there are some crazy people around that just need to be put away for long long time.

pete

[GreenArrow]

And of course remember that in the UK at least, far more young men are attacked on the streets than young women and most rapes are committed by a person known to the victim..... and the victim being drunk after a night out maks it much harder for them to react and defend themself.

That's not to say that unprovoked attacks don;t happen- they do. And usually to someone who looks easy meat, male or female. But that it makes headline news when it happens is in some ways a good thing, i.e. it's rare enough to be a headline.

So don't be too afraid- be sensible where you go and try to stay reasonable sober. Should take care of most stuff.

JMO though.

[Aries]

and its seems that most of us know what to do how to avoid things and such..
but what do you do, how do you teach someone in an 18 year old body but with the mental capacity and development of a 9 year old? Someone who can't even comprehend that she could be sexually assaulted. do you explain it to them? all they know is the feeling of fear and violation which they can't even describe. for a young child most of the time the only thing they can tell you is that they "don't like it". Being in a woman's body is dangerous for someone who barely understands the difference.
this is where my anger and helplessness come from, bystanders like me see the issues that need to be addressed but are ignored.
It hits home for me personally, because i remember being 7 or 8 myself and the confusion and fear asscoiated with deciding weather or not to speak up if someone made me physically uncomfortable.Especially in a culture where you don't question an adults athrouity at that age. Bravest thing I'd probably done was tell me mother how disgusting it felt when certian people touched me even if it was just a pat on the head or a hug.
these issues get swept under the rug, even after things happen just because no one wants to talk about it, some parents even forgo prosecution if they caught the guy just to not bring attention that something ugly had happened.
Granted thats if the girl even wants to tell, some sexual assault victims I know rationalize thier expereince, some convince themselves that they wanted it, but in this case, shes afraid that she'll be punished and blamed for it.

[Alexandrinus]

And there is the question, are we a product out of our education or one of our genetic.
If we are one of education everything can be done,if out of genetic we are limited.

But im shure the genetic part is nearly to disregard,so my opinion everything is possible for everyone.

[Kuma]

Aries, I offer my heartfelt condolences for your friend and yourself, as situations like this are often traumatizing for those close to the victim as well. I hope that you both can once again find a sense of safety and well-being despite the distress you may now be feeling.

In the interest of better informing the discussion here, I present the following.

I generally consider myself a gender abolitionist, however this is one topic where I think that most men (myself included) will never be able to fully understand how women feel. This is due to our culture and society and how men are encouraged to be self-sufficient and aggressive while women are discouraged and often punished in some way for being so. Additionally, they few men could ever possibly understand the quite practical fear that many women experience daily regarding attack or sexual assault. This is simply not an issue of any significant magnitude for men, at least not in my country.

As an example of how a majority of men in our society here in the States genuinely feel about this issue, a quite reputable and fairly recent study found that in excess of 60% of men surveyed admitted that they would rape a woman if they knew that there would be no consequences. If anyone is interested in this study or similar discussions that my wife has been involved in on other forums, I wouldn't mind finding more information.

I only offer this in the hopes that some of us may think twice before offering women any opinions or advice. There is a great chance that what you say may either be misinterpreted as a lack of concern or understanding-- both are, unfortunately, often accurate.

[satsumaruma]

Some interesting points here.

First I would like to say that it does sound like your friend might benefit from professional help such as counselling. Many people shun it because they see themselves as being weak if they take it, but it can work and counsellors will not open any doors that they are not invited to. They work within strict guidelines - I know, I have worked with several over the years though thankfully not from personal expereince.

On the subject of women being targets. This depends. I would concur that you can make your self safe by staying in groups - attackers, rapists etc tend not to go near because there would be too many witnesses and people who would fight back. Staying sober is good advice but most people who go out socially will drink and this means they may be vulnerable to being given a date-rape drug. This is more prevalent than we all like to imagine. Being confident is good but only up to a point - it works if your would be attacker is of sound mind and rational ( this is conceptual insomuch as how can we say it is rational to attack or rape another human being but I hope you see what I am driving at here), they are likley to seek out the most vulnerable. But a great many I have worked with over the years ( and yes I have worked with those who commit the most dreadful crimes) have come within 3 main categories; under the influence of legal/illegal substances, psycopathic, Dangerous and Severe Personality Disorder. No matter how confident you project yourself these 3 categories of people may not recognise/acknowledge this so you may be a target. Not trying to worry anyone but I know of one case where the man sought out the MOST confident women - for him the attacks were all about control.

It is worth considering as well that rape is not about sex but about control. People try to deny and refute this and I acknowledge rights to such a view but if you consider this in totality you will come to see why this is so. Within normal sexual attitudes women control the situation as to when sex will take place. With rape, the man forcibly takes that control from her. Sex is involved but it is the loss of control, the feeling of utter helplessness, that causes so much angst and suffering to the victim of such an attack.

We must also consider male on male rape and how this affects the victim. It is hard for any person to bear such an attack but for men to suffer such an attack is ... I almost wrote worse, which would be wrong but in some ways it sort of is. Men do struggle to speak about their emotions so they cope far worse after such attacks. Women rightly receive lots of help and support but there are fewer such mechanisms to help men. And then there is perception to worry about - how will his friends react? Sympathy and support at first? But when will the silly jokes in the pub start. All meant in a good way I am sure but what would it be like for the victim?

Still with perception, how about women on men rapes. I believe in some countries there is no such offence at law but it is a law in the UK and it does happen. But our reactions to such attacks are often very different to those done by men on women. "if it happened to me I would just lie back and enjoy it" - never heard that before? "how can it be rape, if you got a stiffy - you must have wanted to?" Another misconception. Men can be made to erect and ejaculate whether they want to or not.

I would reassure most of you by noting that attacks on unkowns is actually the minority ( no comfort for those who have been attacked by family or friends) and that whilst muggings are not rare, serious attacks such as indecent assault and rape are.

What seems to being discovered now ( and this is so obvious really but the eggheads have to study for years to find what people with common sense know) is that those comunities who are close knit and where people actively interact and help each other tend to suffer less attacks and crime than other communities (Bright, aren't they?) Most big cities suffer lots of assaults etc because bystanders walk on by, they won't get involved. This helps those who wish to perpetrate such acts. The law makes matters worse because if you help you might be prosecuted if the mugger gets seriously hurt (UK law is truly odd).

Speaking of law. It is interesting to note that whilst many people would advocate the return of the death penalty it does not work as a deterrent. See the crime rates in USA and compare those states which have the death penalty and those that do not. It doesn't get better - in fact in some cases it is worse. Although it could equally be argued that it would be far worse still if they did not have the death penalty. Sharia Law seems to have some effect but then again it may be that, generally speaking, arabs/moslems are a pretty law abiding and moral bunch ( ignore the Towels & Beards lunatics who make the front pages).

I think, in the UK at least, we tend to focus our efforts on helping people when things have happened rather than trying to prevent them happening in the first place. Maybe we need to petition the government on some dramatic changes? Any thoughts?

Lee

PS I could have written a lot more here but I did not want to bore you all. I hope what I have tried to say has come across correctly.

[Kuma]

I've got to admit that, while I used to be staunchly anti-death penalty, I have since come to support the death penalty in some cases of sexual assault. I know that it isn't an effective deterrent, however I do feel that as a member of society, certain actions on your part can cancel society's obligation to support you under any circumstances. I have heard of too many instances of violent rape that ended with the perpetrator, guilty beyond any doubt, simply living much of their lives out in prison. Some people have willingly and knowingly forfeited their right to live in our society, and frankly, even prisoners in the penal system should not have to be subjected to their company.

I've just never heard an effective argument against giving violent sex offenders the death penalty, and I don't think I ever will.