Going up to the Sensei After Class

[swrdply400mrela]

After class (after muk song, sp?), some of the senior members approach the sensei and sit in front of him while he does a quick review of what they need to work on. My question is, how do you know if you should go up?

Once, a few senior members went up and one of them encouraged us to go up with them, but the guy next to me said we shouldn't go up since we didn't spar with our sensei. So instead, we packed away our bogu.

Thanks

Mike

[Yowai]

After class (after muk song, sp?), some of the senior members approach the sensei and sit in front of him while he does a quick review of what they need to work on. My question is, how do you know if you should go up?

Once, a few senior members went up and one of them encouraged us to go up with them, but the guy next to me said we shouldn't go up since we didn't spar with our sensei. So instead, we packed away our bogu.

Thanks

Mike

Your dojo is way too strict unless the sensei is over 50 and is Japanese. Is your sensei a foreigner? Foreigners tend to overdo the traditional parts in any Japanese event since they didn't grow up in Japan therefore have no idea what tradition is.

[aru-ma]

Your dojo is way too strict unless the sensei is over 50 and is Japanese. Is your sensei a foreigner? Foreigners tend to overdo the traditional parts in any Japanese event since they didn't grow up in Japan therefore have no idea what tradition is.

Careful there, personally I've never met a non-japanese sensei that overdo things, although what you said made sense, I call it over compensating.

as for going up to your sensei after training do it anyways, who knows he might have some pointers for you even if you didn't do jigeiko (spar) with him, just because you didnt spar with your sensei doesn't mean that he wasn't looking at you, it is also a good chance to ask your sensei about any questions that you might want to ask.

[Yowai]

Saying foreigners have no idea about Japanese tradition was a wrong thing to say. What I meant to say is that foreigners do not have the social knowledge acquired by spending their childhood in Japan, therefore have wrong impressions on Japanese tradition. The most abused elements are bowing, ossss, (and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss etc) and formalities.

[Doji Jotaro]

Me, I've been doing kendo for no more than two months, and I've just always gone up to the top of the room and listened and talked during the post-training discussion. It's important to know what sort of things lie before you on your path, I guess.

[John W]

I think you should line up and bow anyway-whether you had a fight with sensei or not.
Even just to say thank you for the training and who knows what pearls of wisdom they may give you.

To ask maybe a moments shame, but not to ask and remain ignorant is a life long shame.

[qpuppy]

Saying foreigners have no idea about Japanese tradition was a wrong thing to say. What I meant to say is that foreigners do not have the social knowledge acquired by spending their childhood in Japan, therefore have wrong impressions on Japanese tradition. The most abused elements are bowing, ossss, (and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss etc) and formalities.

Question!!!!.... what is going up to the sensei after class and have a quick review by the sensei have to got to do with Japanese tradition?
Spending time with the family in Japan has nothing got to do with Kendo... Going up to the sensei after training regarding if you have or not jikeiko with the sensei, and thanking them (like what Aru-ma said sometime he or she will give you some pointers)... this is got to do with respect. Everything thing in kendo is all got to do with repect. It has nothing got to do with traditional!!!!

The club where I train... after the training... (after the formal rei etc etc... ) all members would go up to the sensei and sit down and listen to the review of the train that night... and then after the review then it's the time to say thanks to the people you have jikeiko with... and exchange pointers/receive advice from your sensei, senpais, and even kohais.... Like I said before... it's all got to do with respect!

Another question~~.... Do you even know what "Oossss" means

[kendokamax]

So far what I have seen done in Japan is that you only go thank the people that you fought with and maybe the important people in special ocasion where you were invited to a practice etc..
In my club, in japan, students always go to the sensei they fought during the practice. The Sensei give pointers and advices to all of them, then they thank eachothers. Im not too sure but I think the 4th year students get the same thing, the kohai(s) go to the 4th year students they fought and thank them. I never go thank the 4th year student because I dont fall into the kohai/senpai system, so I just go to the senseis.

Before going to Japan I almost never did that (we dont do it in my dojo in canada), for some reason I hate bowing in seiza face to face to someone (done in group its ok..).

I think it is up to every dojo how they do it. You just need to addapt to how they do things where you train. even if it doesnt feel right. The worst is doing things the way you want, with disergard to everyone else in the practice you joined.


btw
I think its offensive (I felt offended(spelling?)) to use the term foreigners in that situation. This is kendo-world! not kendo-japan!

that was my 126 yen ! damn!I could have buy a good ice cream at Seven Eleven!!

[Charlie]

Forgive me but is your sensei Korean? The kumdo teachers may have different habits than the kendo teachers.

Anywho, in my dojo and at the Detroit dojo we all go up and bow in seiza to each teacher or sempai on the other side of the lineup. If sensei or sempai has anything to say, he'll usually say it then. This is of course after general comments to everybody.

"Domo arigato, Tagawa-sensei."

"Hai, domo. Eh, Cha-ri, you need to be sure your hands are not coming too far down." (Demonstrates.)

"Hai, thank you, sensei."

"And you, Eric, use your left foot more."

Etc.

[sminki]

Saying foreigners have no idea about Japanese tradition was a wrong thing to say. What I meant to say is that foreigners do not have the social knowledge acquired by spending their childhood in Japan, therefore have wrong impressions on Japanese tradition. The most abused elements are bowing, ossss, (and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss, and ossss etc) and formalities.

Couldn't agree more. It absolutely drives me up the wall when people who are not Japanese "osssss". Also, when non-Japanese people kiai like older Japanese senseis (Although technically, kiai is a very individual thing, this still bugs me. I'm probably getting myself in trouble by saying this though.) I feel like saying "Hey man, have you even been to Japan?"

BTW, Charlie, you should probably say "Domo arigato gozaimasu" vs. just "Domo arigato". That could be a bit more formal/respectful.

Lastly, as long as you've trained under the sensei for a fair amount of time and know him fairly well, I think you can go ask for pointers when you feel you need it. I think that holds true for both Korean and Japanese dojos.

[Charlie]

Thanks. What do you mean by:

Also, when non-Japanese people kiai like older Japanese senseis

?

Like a deep, Toshiro Mifune roar, or...?

[Jerry Wellbrock]

I train at the Northern Kentucky Kendo Club part of the East Central US Kendo Federation. After Class everyone goes up to the ranking Senseis and sits is seiza bows and thanks them. Even the 5th and 6th dans will bow to the 7th dan before sitting themselves for the remaining students to greet them. It is not important if you personally trained with that individual that class or not, only that you show respect and thank all the instructors who showed up to either help with class or to be training partners. Often it may not be a training point that you recieve but perhaps an invitation to train with them another time or at another dojo etc.,

As for "OSSS" or "Ous" This could be another thread. I have heard that it could be a contraction of "Onegaishimasu" and that its use may have started in the Japanese Navy. Sort of like "Aye-Aye". I have only seen or should I say I usually only hear "Ous" commonly used in Karate Classes and usually outside of Japan. It is used as an affirmation and is used as a common response to almost any question or statement to denote agreement. Also used when greeting other karateka. I have not heard it used in kendo or iaido. Any other thoughts?

[sminki]

As for "OSSS" or "Ous" This could be another thread. I have heard that it could be a contraction of "Onegaishimasu" and that its use may have started in the Japanese Navy. Sort of like "Aye-Aye". I have only seen or should I say I usually only hear "Ous" commonly used in Karate Classes and usually outside of Japan. It is used as an affirmation and is used as a common response to almost any question or statement to denote agreement. Also used when greeting other karateka. I have not heard it used in kendo or iaido. Any other thoughts?

How's it going in Kentucky? Last year at Chicago, there was a really impressive Japanese 6 dan from Kentucky. He was really good...

Anyway, I've heard "osss" in context of greeting other kendoka (although I never use it and think that such distinctly (and somewhat informal) Japanese method of greeting should probably not be used by anyone who's not a sensei or anyone who's not lived and trained in Japan (and have gotten naturally accustomed to such greetings) for a long time. Some shodan/nidan people at my dojo do that sometimes and it bothers me. Just my opinion.

Charlie - like I said, I'm gonna get myself into trouble here, but what I mean by "older Japanese sensei" kiai is things like "men-da", "men-dare", etc. involving any attachments of additional syllables at the end of a kiai. I have a sensei who emphasizes clean and proper kiai and myself prefer clean (non-repeating, i.e. no "kotekotekotekote") kiai, so I'm probably biased, but I do admit that kiai is a personal thing.

[Nishi]

If you are a guest at the dojang i would go to the teacher and offer a quick "thanks for having me", if he wants to give pointers he will. If its a teacher visiting your club, i would go up and say" Its been a pleasure having you here" if he wants to give pointers he will.

But at my own dojo where i train with my instructors on a regular basis at the begining and end of class we do the whole "sensei gotto ni rei"(sp?) thing...I know to go up to the instructors when im seeking additional advice, mabye due to a grading, the rest of the time its just a thanks for having me, or a thanks for coming out!

I think the rest of this thread almost went silly.

[mingshi]

I never go thank the 4th year student because I dont fall into the kohai/senpai system, so I just go to the senseis.

Not sure about the proper way, but I go up to anyone who hav free practice with me on the day -- even the kids who try to escape from me as I learn from everybody.

Just wish by very rare chance there will be some verbal advice from sensei/senpai... Sometimes it is annoying when you walk out of the dojo keep wondering what you have done wrong (er I know I should know better by myself but...)

Cheers.