New Seitei Iai Kata (13 & 14)????

[Galo]

Hi!

A couple of days ago, a friend sent me the link for these 2 videos on youtube, showing the execution of Seitei Iai kata.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDqMCOOUsQg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26EOllIj4c8



The videos show Masashi Katsumata (according to the videos' info) performing the 12 Seitei Iai kata, from a front (1st video) and
side (2nd video) view.

However, after the 12th kata in both videos, he continues without stop to perform 2 additional kata. Kata #13 looks like nothing I've ever done or seen (Seitei & MSR, so pardon my ignorance) at all. Kata #14 looks a lot like a modified MSR Gyakutou form. Both "additional" kata have that Seitei-feeling to them.

Does anybody know if these 2 kata are/will be added to the current Seitei 12-kata set?

Thanks!

[neko kenshi]

Those seem to be from MJER koryu... or the comments seem to indicate so, anyway.

[Ryujin]

Both waza are from Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu (MJER), Shoden level. The 13th is Ukenagashi and the 14th Tsukekomi (Katsumata san, the performer, is a MJER practitioner).
I do not think that they are going to be added to the ZNKR Iaido. In a seminar last year, Fukuhara Y. sensei, Iaido Kyoshi 8 dan, responding in a question for the possibility of new ZNKR Iaido kata, said that the last ZNKR Iaido waza is Nukiuchi and the last, also, in Shoden for both MJER & MSR is Nukiuchi. Given the fact that ZNKR Iaido is basic Iaido, in his opinion, there will be no additions of new waza in ZNKR Iaido.

[Inner_Silence]

liked the one before the last one... it was like "im going to kill you till you are dead!!!!"

[Galo]

Thanks a lot for the answers. I really had no clue about them

[chidokan]

unusual that a young guy is allowing himself to be video'ed... does he know this is on youtube???
His noto for the two koryu is pretty poor, and his head moves badly during his noto on tsukekomi... I would kick his backside for that, never mind my sensei!
Unwritten rule number 1... never allow videos of yourself on the net while your sensei is still alive...it reflects on his teaching as other japanese sensei ask why he hasnt corrected these faults...

[Oroshi]

unusual that a young guy is allowing himself to be video'ed... does he know this is on youtube???
His noto for the two koryu is pretty poor, and his head moves badly during his noto on tsukekomi... I would kick his backside for that, never mind my sensei!
Unwritten rule number 1... never allow videos of yourself on the net while your sensei is still alive...it reflects on his teaching as other japanese sensei ask why he hasnt corrected these faults...

He's the person who's been posting all the videos of Yamasaki sensei etc. He's Yamasaki sensei's student. Check out his picture here: http://iai.ejan.org/page5/. No idea if Yamasaki sensei actually knows about this though.

With regards to his iai - all I know is that it's better than mine! But then again, I'm never, ever putting a video of myself online.

[Dave_petrucci]

He's the person who's been posting all the videos of Yamasaki sensei etc. He's Yamasaki sensei's student. Check out his picture here: http://iai.ejan.org/page5/. No idea if Yamasaki sensei actually knows about this though.

With regards to his iai - all I know is that it's better than mine! But then again, I'm never, ever putting a video of myself online.

If you check the videos section of the site you'll find links to Youtube. If that's the Dojos site I'd presume Yamasaki Sensei knows about it.

[shred_lord]

unusual that a young guy is allowing himself to be video'ed... does he know this is on youtube???
His noto for the two koryu is pretty poor, and his head moves badly during his noto on tsukekomi... I would kick his backside for that, never mind my sensei!
Unwritten rule number 1... never allow videos of yourself on the net while your sensei is still alive...it reflects on his teaching as other japanese sensei ask why he hasnt corrected these faults...

1. Everyone has errors in there iai, everyone.
2. How is posting a video all that different to performing at embu or taikai?

[Charles Mahan]

Everyone has errors in there iai, everyone.

Not sensei. He just has occasional improvised variations

How is posting a video all that different to performing at embu or taikai?

Not to speak for Tim, but I'll chime in a little here. Because a video can be played many times, it has the potential to be used as instructional material, even if that is not the intent of the poster of the video. Video has a reference nature that is not present in a one time demonstration. It also tends to expose more of the practitioners flaws, because it provides the oppurtunity of multiple viewings. Posting a video of yourself carries the additional connotation of "look at me!".

[shred_lord]

Because a video can be played many times, it has the potential to be used as instructional material, even if that is not the intent of the poster of the video. Video has a reference nature that is not present in a one time demonstration. It also tends to expose more of the practitioners flaws, because it provides the oppurtunity of multiple viewings.

All good points

Posting a video of yourself carries the additional connotation of "look at me!".

Not so sure, but can see your point.

[chidokan]

the references made by Charles are correct... if it is sanctioned by your sensei, it is him saying "that is how it is supposed to be done by my group/dojo". Hence why you should only see videos by soke/ very senior instructors.
By all means do videos of yourself, but keep them for reference and drinks parties with your friends as a good source of joke material.... apart from your awful haircut (assuming you will still have some in future!) you will all cringe at the godawful mistakes you now do. And make sure you are ALL on the video...no escape for anyone...

Note general enbu videos seem to be an exception to this, as the whole dojo is on display. This seems to be acceptable, although I would like any forum guys in Japan at the moment to verify this...
It's quite possible that sensei do not approve of these tapes being on public display on youtube etc...internet video is new and they may have just assumed the video is being taken by a tourist for his personal use... although how he stops it at public displays is another matter... ie - dont do displays at all...

[satsumaruma]

Clearly these 'extra' two kata/waza are MJER koryu, if for no other reason than you can hear the person at the camera say "koryu".

I have seen Yamazaki Sensei demonstrate both these techniques and must say that he didn't do either of them like this young chap. However, I am assured that Yamazaki Sensei does train with Iwata Sensei at times and having seen Rottunpunk and Chidokan do these forms, they do have similarities. Certainly, The Haruna/Oshita Sensei version of Uke Nagashi is very different to what is shown here. It is much more what like Tim/Debz do than my interpretation of Haruna/Oshita Sensei's; and this also applies to the Tsuki kome.

So I think we can sleep safe in out beds that there are still only 12 Seitei kata.

Or can we?


mwah ha ha haaaaaa.

[Galo]

Clearly these 'extra' two kata/waza are MJER koryu, if for no other reason than you can hear the person at the camera say "koryu".

Ooooh. I was at work, so wasn't able to hear to the audio on the video.

I have seen Yamazaki Sensei demonstrate both these techniques and must say that he didn't do either of them like this young chap. However, I am assured that Yamazaki Sensei does train with Iwata Sensei at times and having seen Rottunpunk and Chidokan do these forms, they do have similarities. Certainly, The Haruna/Oshita Sensei version of Uke Nagashi is very different to what is shown here. It is much more what like Tim/Debz do than my interpretation of Haruna/Oshita Sensei's; and this also applies to the Tsuki kome.

So I think we can sleep safe in out beds that there are still only 12 Seitei kata.

Thanks for the additional info

[satsumaruma]

Ooooh. I was at work, so wasn't able to hear to the audio on the video.

It was quite quiet as well - I only just picked up on it.