Jodan and/or Nito-Ryu

[akihiro]

Are there any jodan and/or nito-ryu players on this forum?

If so, I am curious to learn how you got started and how you study. Also, at what level did you change your style?

In my experience, sensei who play jodan and/or nito-ryu are not so common. The only nito-ryu person I can think of is Toda sensei, who used to be a jodan player before he began practicing nito-ryu. There are a couple clips of him in the "Goodies" section of Kendo World.

[alexpollijr]

It's interesting that you'd ask such a question, I often wondered bout that myself. In this last Brazilian Champ there was only one guy doing nitoryu. This same guy was wearing a f* real Same Do.

Mind you, I found out later when he removed his men that he was a eighteen year old westerner one-year-and-a-half-of-kendo shodan.

Some guys from Paraguay who stood next to use made some pretty funny coments

Anyway, he was bad. He polished the right side of his opponent Dodai with about 20 blows with the shoto, and no one of them was valid. He lost in the first round to a ittoryu guy who unleashed such a wonderfull barrage of four strikes into about 1,5 second that almost tore his two swords from his hands, and finally ended into a nice yukodatotsu to the upper kote (the one holding the daito).

Recently I asked sensei if he could help me with Jodan fighting. he told me very puzzling things. Not like 'fear leads to hate, hate leads to suffering', but he asked me if I was lefthanded (which I'm not) and then he told me that I could change stances during the match at will. And that was it

So for the last three months I've been arriving an hour before renshu to practice Jodan waza , but I've still got to try it in shiai.

[Kendoka]

In shiai you can not score by using the shoto, only by correct datotsu with the longer shinai.

Richard

[inner_cent]

Actually, i don't exactly agree with Richard. recently, Toda sensei came down to Melbourne and taugh us about Nito. He did mention that it is possible to gain a point using shoto. However, the situation has to be very unique (Daito must ensure that the opponent's daito was suppressed ...I think that is what he ment), before Shoto point is counted valid. Even this point, is also a debatable as well. Anyway, the conclusion is, it is possible to score the point with shoto, but not anyhow forget the daito and just fight with shoto ..........

[alexpollijr]

So, what exactly is a valid point with nito?

[alexpollijr]

Plus, does anyone know in shaku the size of the shoto shinai?

[olaf]

Alexpollijr:

Bottom of page: http://www.boudicca.de/jap-10.htm

Just do a google search. I recall seeing similar information on one of the online budo retailers' web site. Maybe it was kendoshop.com

[lewis]

My understanding of Jodan is similar to Richard's: no points with the Shoto - it is only for defense. The valid points in nito are any valid points but with the daito.

Like Akihiro, I am also interested in the other styles within kendo. My experience in asking for instruction is the same as alexpollijr's. And all the people I have known that use jodan or do nito style just started doing it, essentially on their own. They don't get a lot of instruction other than the sensei saying a point was good or not in shiai.

[akihiro]

alexpollijr:

The length of the shoto has to be >62 cm for both men and women. One shaku is approximately 30.303 cm, therefore a shoto is roughly 2 shaku in length.

Also, the daito has to be less than >114 cm long, i.e. a 37 shinai. Again for both sexes.

For men, the shoto has to weigh between 280 - 300 g and the daito has to be <425 g.

For ladies, the shoto has to weigh between 250 - 280 g and the daito has to be <400 g.

How is your jodan training going? I've played jodan before, it's tough.

[alexpollijr]

Hard. I'm still trying to get that stingin' type motion that I see most experienced jodan fighters perform, it's a muscular factor I think. Also the sync of left feet stamp with katate waza from jodam is difficult to attain, if possible.

Anyway, it's just a hobby for now. I'm sticking to chudan during renshu. i'm very interested in nitoryu also, that's why the questions. It seems that only the guys at e-bogu sell appropriate shoto shinai.

[stakenaka]

Jodan is hard!
I am not sure what you mean about the "stingin" motion. If you mean a big, fast (and sore) hit, one way is to throw the shinai down with your right hand. Of course, you should only throw as much as you can control with your left hand.
Sync'ing the motion is hard. Doing fumikomi with the left foot is hard period!

[akihiro]

If you feel like, you can make your own shoto shinai from a broken 37 shinai (as long as the break is at the monouchi).

Jodan footwork makes you realize what beginners feel like when they practice ashi-sabaki.

The swing in jodan requires you to use both arms even though the stike may be one handed. The right arm launches the shinai with the left arm in the beginning of the motion and then the strike is controlled with the left hand. If you are trying to strike with only your left arm, it will not be as sharp. Hopefully this makes sense, my explanation may not be clear.

[stinkyKote]

hmmm, here's an interesting one, have you guys ever seen a woman do nitoryu? I've seen a few do Jodan around here, but never Nitoryu-

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by inner_cent
Actually, i don't exactly agree with Richard. recently, Toda sensei came down to Melbourne and taugh us about Nito. He did mention that it is possible to gain a point using shoto. ..........

Hi Innercent, we were at the same seminar !

Toda Sensei explained that it was possible to cut with the shoto (of course) as one would, if fighting with two swords. A tsuki with the shoto when in close is a joy to receive (!)

But, the original question was about scoring in shiai. He did emphasise that cuts made with the shoto would not be awarded a point in shiai.

Possibly to even the odds a bit for the opponent with only one shinai.

Richard

[lewis]

This is a great thread! Would some of the guys in Japan talk about Jodan and Nito. Stuff like how and how much they are taught? How many people do them? And, generally, what the other kendo players and sensei think of people doing them?

I have been trying jodan for a while, I agree, very hard.

The comment about the right hand was a helpful insight. Thanks.