kendo lawsuit

**DCPan** · 6th March 2009, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Messerschmitt

Noobs=Cannon fodders=target practice
It's quite common for a noob to be a target of abuse. Noobs clean the dojo after practice, too.

Show me 'paint the fence', show me 'wash the car'.

More than one documentary have talked about the benefits of cleaning the dojo if you do it a certain way....

**Theodore** · 6th March 2009, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by DCPan

Show me 'paint the fence', show me 'wash the car'.

More than one documentary have talked about the benefits of cleaning the dojo if you do it a certain way....

I can see Daniel-san suing Miyagi sensei for a rotator cuff tear or tennis elbow.

**Jung_Yul** · 6th March 2009, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Theodore

I can see Daniel-san suing Miyagi sensei for a rotator cuff tear or tennis elbow.

No way... the take-down in the baseball field - solid gold lawsuit material.

**ThePoetWarrior** · 18th May 2009, 03:49 AM

soo if he was injured in 2004, why the hell would he wait 4 years to bring it up and sue him? what a bunch of horse crap

**Angel_Of_Music** · 22nd May 2009, 07:18 AM

Came to this thread, and what i read shocked me outright...

What I know about the law of assault in contact sports (and other reasonable activities) I read it in my time doing a diploma in legal studies (specifically English law), so here goes:

The common law states that as long as contact in such activities (such as rugby, soccer, or in this case kendō) is allowed and lawful, so long as its within reasonable boudaries (like for example: in a rugby tackle or boxing, you don't take out all your opponent's teeth or chew his ears off like Mike Tyson). In short, in such activities as contact sports there is a lawfully "implied permission" for some contact (direct or not) to the human body.

My rant:

The litigant should also have reasonably known by then (april 2004) what to expect in a martial art like Kendō. He should, because he had been doing this for 6 months already!! (Unless, his seniors took great pains to hide every bit of info on what he needed to know about taking hits through his bōgu, which i find rather improbable). Even if his sensei and sempai had not warned him of what to expect, a person of reasonable intellect should be able to work it out himself. And to be fair, I'd expect even better, given that the litigant was lawyer himself!!

To be honest, I'm not too sure on the law specific to kendō itself (especially when it comes to using reasonable force), but if it were to be compared to other (somewhat) similar martial arts or sports like Jūdō, Karate-dō, or Tae Kwon Do, the objective expectation would be that such activities, if done safely and correctly, would still elicit some pain and exhaustion to the normal human body, male or female. In short, a little pain and tiredness from such activities is normal and not going over the border towards the area of illegal assault.

Looking at it from an alternate angle: if such "pain" or "exhaustion" were to be prevented from occurring in these legal and lawfully practiced sports or arts, it would prevent the proper enjoyment of these otherwise lawful activities. An infringement on our freedom, I dare say. Can you imagine the consequences if the same judgements in this case were applied to American Football?

After all that's said, I'm not sure if all this applies to the law of HK, given that it's been out of UK for some time now. But I believe a reasonble person with some knowledge of law would have dismissed this altogether as opportunistic HOGWASH. Let alone the judges presiding over this particular case...

Sorry for the rant, but my blood boils just reading about greedy opportunists like this lawyer. Not all would agree with me but that's fine, it's how the world of justice works. (as for those who still don't get that this is just my own OPINION, go sod off or something).

**batusai.** · 5th March 2010, 10:03 AM

Er, it's 30% for the judge, and split between the lawyer and the plaintiff. lol

**Yonkyu** · 6th March 2010, 05:26 AM

WTH??? 6000 viewers but just 300 signatures. Are you kidding me?
Please join and sign with us.
http://www.gopetition.com/online/23263.html

**rfoxmich** · 6th March 2010, 05:52 AM

A Dr. a Priest and a Lawyer are stranded on a desert Island. About 500m away across shark infested water they see another island with a radio tower. If they can just swim over and knock out the tower, they know someone will come to fix it and rescue them. The Dr. volunteers to risk the swim, the other two refuse to let him because they may need his services to stay healthy. The priest offers to risk it but the other two again refuse to let him since they may need him to give last rites in case anyone dies of injury or illness while they are stranded.. So the lawyer jumps into the water, swims across, knocks out the tower, hops back in the water and swims back to joint the other two. Not a scratch on them.

Sure enough a week later, a boat comes to fix the tower and all three are rescued. While they are on the boat, the Dr. turns to the lawyer and says
"I've been meaning to ask you, you swam 500m through shark infested waters, knocked out the radio tower and then 500m back through shark infested waters and the sharks didn't even sniff at you.. what's up with that"?

The lawyer replies "Professional courtesy"

**Kaoru** · 6th March 2010, 06:30 AM

Hahahaha!!! ROTFL!! Oh man, that was great!

Thanks for that one.

I think that lawyer who sued is a joke in himself. It's so sad... He totally doesn't get kendo!

Kaoru

**Kyung** · 10th March 2010, 04:15 AM

I wonder if I can sue someone for deliberately tsugi'ing me under the neckguard...
Yes.....money money money

**yourlordmoses** · 27th April 2010, 01:30 AM

Wait you can charge for assault in a contact sports environment? Since when can you bastardize something so pristine as Kendo? It's slightly disappointing that my school's overdone waiver for the club is actually showing some merit after seeing that. This one leaves me in awe.

**kanyil** · 27th April 2010, 11:47 AM

I too do agree with someone bringing a law suit in the context of kendo, and I realise some of the discussions here are a bit tongue in cheek, but let's just separate fact from wishful thinking (or misunderstanding). Talking generally only and assuming it's the English style (non-US) common law system we are working with:

DISCLAIMER: The post below is only the ranting and ravings of an anonymous person on the internet and does not constitute legal advice. By continuing to read this post you have agreed that (i) the poster and you are not in a lawyer-client relationship or any other type of fiduciary relationship and the poster owes no duty of care to you or any other person and you may not (whether seriously or half-hearted) rely on any of the following, (ii) you agree to fully indemnify the poster of the post below against all losses, damages, expenses and costs (howsoever described, including Wachtell style legal fees on a full indemnity basis) which might be incurred by the said poster in connection with, or arising out of, your reading of the post below and pay the same on demand, and (iii) you agree to, where requested by the poster, do all acts (including the signing and delivery of any documents, whether in blood or any other fluid or bodily fluid or a mixture thereof) required to give effect to the above.

- Of course you can be sued in a contact sports environment. Generally, if you made them afraid without touching them, it's called assault, if there's actual contact it's called battery. Yes, I realise the implications of being "assaulted by seme". :P

- There is a difference between criminal battery and tortious battery. The legal requirements for what constitutes battery differs between the two (and also differs from country to country). So when in doubt, consult your local qualified attorney/lawyer/solicitor/legal practitioner.

- Intention to batter is sometimes relevant, but not always.

- Consent (express or implie) is a defense, but only to a certain degree. In the context of a contact sports environment, the implied consent is generally limited to what can be reasonably considered as usual in the course of the activity in question. This is where much of the problem arise. Punching someone in the face during a boxing match is ok - but whacking them with a table while boxing? Not so ok (unless you are in WWF, then presumably all bets are off and blowing poison powder in the face is the norm).

In my view only, being whacked on the head as a motodachi fits easily within the concept of implied consent. Being accidentally tsuki'd under the tsukidare is a bit more borderline, but is arguably "par for the course" in kendo. On the other hand, if someone comes over and whacks you from behind ninja style during mokuso - one would be hard pressed to call it proper kendo and would probably crossed the line.

Always get good insurance coverage and try to get members to sign a properly crafted waiver and indemnity (in blood if possible...). This does not give you complete protection (the only real protection against a civil lawsuit is to own nothing!) but at least it's a start. Lastly and obviously (and how silly of me to bring this up), an online petition is not going to change a decided case...