Question about Owaza's Definition of Katsugi

[Sanjuro]

I recently bought Hiroshi Owaza's Kendo: The Definitive Guide. If anyone also has this book, I'd like to ask a question about the author's guide to using katsugi kote. In the book, it says to raise the shinai to the right shoulder, when it clearly shows in the picture the kendoka executing katsugi to be bringing the shinai over the left. Also, it then says to strike right kote, and shows the kendoka striking the right kote *from the recipient's point of view*. I can understand if the author meant to keep the entire thing in perspective of the recipient (then indeed it would be the right shoulder from his point of view) but then in the writing it is narrated in the form of directions ("put your shinai on your right shoulder")

On his other waza descriptions, Owaza uses two points of view; when he talks about the target, he says it in respect of the recipient, while when he talks about the attacker he talks about left/right from that point of view.

Sorry if this post is a bit confusing, I can clarify it further if anyone has questions.

[Nanbanjin]

I recently bought Hiroshi Owaza's Kendo: The Definitive Guide. If anyone also has this book, I'd like to ask a question about the author's guide to using katsugi kote. In the book, it says to raise the shinai to the right shoulder, when it clearly shows in the picture the kendoka executing katsugi to be bringing the shinai over the left. Also, it then says to strike right kote, and shows the kendoka striking the right kote *from the recipient's point of view*. I can understand if the author meant to keep the entire thing in perspective of the recipient (then indeed it would be the right shoulder from his point of view) but then in the writing it is narrated in the form of directions ("put your shinai on your right shoulder")

On his other waza descriptions, Owaza uses two points of view; when he talks about the target, he says it in respect of the recipient, while when he talks about the attacker he talks about left/right from that point of view.

Sorry if this post is a bit confusing, I can clarify it further if anyone has questions.

I've got the book on order. I will check when it arrives.

[Sanjuro]

Sorry. Ozawa...not Owaza. I've got too much waza on my mind -_-.

[Nanbanjin]

Sorry. Ozawa...not Owaza. I've got too much waza on my mind -_-.

For what it's worth I am pretty sure that katsugi waza is performed over the left shoulder, if that was your question.
The translation might have gotten messed up.

I used to train with Ozawa Sensei in Japan. He used katsugi men quite a bit if I remember correctly.

[Nanbanjin]

For what it's worth I am pretty sure that katsugi waza is performed over the left shoulder, if that was your question.
The translation might have gotten messed up.

I used to train with Ozawa Sensei in Japan. He used katsugi men quite a bit if I remember correctly.

I just found a reference to right katsugi as well...

かつぎ技ですか。直線的なスピード重視の試合剣道においては、やや変則的な技としてあま
り多用されなくなってきておりますが、それでも依然、試合などでも効果的な技として重用
されています。

かつぎ方の方向としては、
　１．左肩にかつぐ
　２．右肩にかつぐ

担ぐときの足の出し方については、
　ア．足を出しながらかつぐ
　イ．その場でかつぐ
があり、小手などは１－アが、面は１－アと１－イが併用されているケースが多いよう
です。

かつぎ技のポイントは、「思い切って大きく」です。

translation....

Katsugi-waza right? Katsugi-waza is a little irregular in shiai-kendo where direct speed is considered important so it isn't used very much as it used to be, but it is still put forward as an effective technique in shiai etc just as it always has been.

In regards to the direction of the katsugi there are

1. Left sided katsugi
2. Right sided katsugi.

When performing katsugi the foot are used in the following way.
A. Bring the shinai into katsugi while moving your feet forward.
B. Perform katsugi on the spot.
For kote etc. the combination 1-A is commonly used. For men 1-A and 1-B are most common.

The point to remember for katsugi-waza is "Big and full".....

Feel free to correct my translation!

[Sanjuro]

Nanbanjin-

Thanks for the quick and informative reply, I understand what Ozawa sensei's point is now.

[Nanbanjin]

Nanbanjin-

Thanks for the quick and informative reply, I understand what Ozawa sensei's point is now.

Sanjuro,

No worries mate.

The source of the quote is as follows, provided with the kind permission of
Hide.-san.

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~ichini/b...470703125.html

The section I translated continues...

....元々はフェイント技の一種ですので、
お相手の虚をつく技なわけです。お相手が居着いていたり、受けに回っているとき、返し
を狙っているときなどに効果が現れますので、ちまちました動作ではなく、大きく大胆に
かつぎたいですね。
注意点は、、「出鼻を狙っているお相手には厳禁」ということでしょうか(^^)

Katsugi waza is fundamentally a type of feint waza, so you are trying to opponent by surprise. When your opponent has become still (motionless/rooted to one spot), or when your opponent is circling to defend (?) or going for a kaeshi-waza katsugi-waza is effective, so you should use not sudden movements, but large bold movements.

A word of caution though, "Beware of opponents who are looking for debana"!

**********************

For anyone trying to translate this for themselves I highly recommend the Goo online dictionary.
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/index.html

[aru-ma]

In your description it says left and right katsugu(i) with my limited kendo experiance I've only seen and used left katsugi for kote, what sort of katsugi waza can be done from the right side? the closest one I can think of is gyaku do

[Nanbanjin]

In your description it says left and right katsugu(i) with my limited kendo experiance I've only seen and used left katsugi for kote, what sort of katsugi waza can be done from the right side? the closest one I can think of is gyaku do

Yeah, I have never really heard of right katsugi either.
The original thread continues with the following. Someone on the Japanese thread actually asked a similar question to yours.

＞かつぎ方も、右と左の違いはなんなんでしょうか？そこがまだよく理解できません。。。

右肩に担ぐ方法は、まず仕掛け技ではほとんど行なわれていないと思われます。お相手が打
ってきたところを、体を右さばきしながら開いて面を合わせるようなときにしか使えないの
ではないでしょうか(^^;　あとは面を誘い出して出小手を打つくらいか・・・。

What is the difference between the way of performing katsugi on the right and on the left? I still don't understand this point.

Answer:

For right kasugi, this is pretty well never performed as shikake-waza. I think it is safe to say it can only be used when matching a men strike with your opponent - first opening up while maneuvering to the right and then hitting men with your opponent Also, maybe after sticking your men out to your opponent and then hitting degote...

[tango]

In my experience using katsugi waza, it can be effective against people who are following (or mimicking) your own movements. Thus katsugi to the right causes your opponent to move his shinai to the right (his left) because he thinks you are going to attack that side. (This opens kote).
Katusgi to the left, the opponent moves his shinai to the left (his right) because he thinks you are going to attack his right kote. This opens up men.

Katsugi can be very susceptible to debana waza (again, this is just my experience) because the point at which you move to the left or right shoulder is point where you are giving up center, thus opening yourself to attack with debana kote (or men).

tango

[Neil Gendzwill]

Normally you shoulder the shinai to the left, then you have kote and men as targets. If you shoulder to the right, you've got men and maybe gyaku-doh too.

[Nanbanjin]

Ozawa’s Kendo - The Definitive Guide turned up in the mail yesterday.

The reference on page 66 to katsugi-waza looks like a plain typo to me.