Kiai

**Achilles** · 10th August 2002, 09:51 PM

It may be the "correct" romanization, but it's still misleading. For an English speaker, a "u" after an "o" produces a double-o sound: (i.e. moo, like a cow or like the number two), or it can denote an "ow" sound, as in "mouse" or "house". But the O in kendo or do is a flat "o", as in "oh" or "low". What do you think?

**Kenshi** · 10th August 2002, 10:49 PM

Achilles,

Kendo = Kendou .. both are correct/fine, you just aren't familiar with both systems and the [pronounciation] rules of each.

Similiar to Americans telling me I spell coloUr (etc) incorrectly .... or even japanese people when I was teaching them English!!!

Should we change Karate to Karatay and Karaoke to Karaokay??

(I'm not attacking you btw!)

I had to put a "disclaimer" on my ye-ancient musashi site as I used to get people emailing me saying "um, youve got spelling mistakes" ... ridiculous, but true!

Back to ........

Kiai - I find that ending in a VOWEL is much more comfy to ending in a CONSONANT ..... I never did like "meN" but always added "menAAA" or "menOOO" or something. Anybody else think about this, or should I find something else to fill-up my time ?????

Cheers,

**alexpollijr** · 11th August 2002, 01:47 AM

George

I also have developed the habit of adding a vowel to the end of men. I don't know how it happened, in the very beginning I remember screaming "MEEnnhummm" but eventually it turned into "MennHAAA" or "MennHOOO".

**mingshi** · 11th August 2002, 05:57 AM

Forget about the Japanese-Roman translation stuff. I don't want to kiai "Dooouuuuuuuuuuuuu~" next time when I go for other people's Do!!

I recall someone says, Kiai is like singing. In theory people good at singing/ Karaoke would know better how to use their "Hara"... Also when you sing the word "Amen" in a hymn, you'll sing "Aa-Mee-n" with the n very soft. Same thing for kiai. Especially if you go for "Men"... I don't think your Hara can produce an N sound better then your nose..

Yes I suppose people study linguistics would also agree that words ending with vowels are easier to be shouted out. According to my dictionary, Vowel is:-

A human speech sound in which the breath is let out without any stop or any closing of the air passage in the mouth.

There comes laziness! Notice that both Kote and Tsuki has 2 syllables... I've shorten them by saying "koeeeeee~!" and "tseeeeee~!"..... And recently my Men, Kote and Do became "Eiiii~~~!", "tEEEEeeee~~!" and "Ooooo~~!". Pure vowels.

Is there any set rules on what your kiai should be on the cut? Since the requirement is "Ki-Ken-Tai"... Does that mean that you can cut Kote with "meeeen~~!"?

**David J** · 11th August 2002, 07:15 PM

I thought "tsuki" was one syllable...?

**KhawMengLee** · 11th August 2002, 07:19 PM

Heh, one of the sonkyu's in my dojo was doing kigeiko with a nidan. He was thinking "I'm gonna strike kote" and as he got back up from sonkyo he shouted out (accidentaly) "KOTE!!!!"

The nidan was like, "what?!?"

And the sonkyu guy made a kote cut and actually got it...heh

**kendo_chick** · 13th August 2002, 01:08 AM

My kiai is apparently very good (I don't like to boast) but I do get a lot of praise for it. I just open my mouth and scream something. I don't know, it's weird.

The strangest kiai I have ever heard is a girl from Canada screams but it sounds like a velociraptor. She is also very tiny so it's rather amusing.

A guy in my club actually sounds (well this is what I think) like a parrot in a whole lot of pain.

**Matthew Lagden** · 14th August 2002, 06:49 PM

There is a beginner at our Dojo who has the scariest Kiai I have ever heard - i have no idea what he is saying but it absolutely puts the fear of god into you and he is haflway to winning a point before he moves. It is kind of like a primal scream and makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

When he starts to compete he is going to win with that alone. I have asked him what he says and how he does it (because I think my Kiai is the weakest part of my Kendo - and the rest of it is not exactly brilliant either) and he just shrugs and says he doesn't really know.

**Charlie** · 14th August 2002, 10:21 PM

Matt, sounds like the guys is a natural in some ways. But he will still have other areas to work on. And, I think, sometimes when a person is kiai-ing too much or too loud, you can turn it against them. They can give away their intention, or betray their fear.

Not saying I take advantage of that; more like I get taken advantage of!

Mingsha, that's very interesting about singing and the consanent sounds. When I started doing kendo I played with kiai. I wanted a non-specific kiai because, if I yelled "Men!" and hit kote by accident, well... But if I yelled "jhfkjd!!" and hit kote (when I was aiming for men) shimpan might give it to me anyway!

To that end, I always tried to use "t" sounds or "h" sounds or just a string of vowels, to expel the breath. And always, as George said, end in a vowel to further this. So I would kiai

"t'ohhhhh!" (I hear this quite a bit. Also corresponds to the "Toh!" in kata.)

or "yaaa!" (kata) or "shoooooo!"

But, like I said, my favorite is still "hara!" or "Haraharahara." Gets the breath out, good strong "h" noise, and actually helps me visualize the hara where all this breath is supposed to be coming from!

**Matthew Lagden** · 14th August 2002, 11:35 PM

I take your point about betraying intentions, but somehow i don't get the feeling there is much fear in him to betray - unlike in me! Like you say, i think he is a natural.

With regard to your point about calling your strike (Men, Kote etc) - the other week our Sensei said that in his opinion you should call it in a Shiai, because even if the Shinpan couldn't quite see if you made your cut correctly or not, he might give you the Ippon anyway because the whole package seemed to be there, if you see what I mean!

**Jklak** · 14th August 2002, 11:50 PM

I hear one girl use this kind of kiai in once.

Quite high and deep kiai, which sounds: Täiiiiiiiii...

Word täi means lice in Finnish so people who don't understand Finnish (most of the people) misses the hidden message.

**Steve** · 20th August 2002, 10:41 AM

Glad you like my kiai there Kendo_Chick! I take pride in it being shrill and painful!

;-)

Confound · 20th August 2002, 05:39 PM

AMEN! I was wondering how long it would be before someone else noticed that it's KendoU not kendo... the 'u' is necessary, folks. it's du rigeur, very stylish, you know.

(sorry, this is late i know, but i was vacationing.)

c

**Ares2907** · 20th August 2002, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Confound
AMEN! I was wondering how long it would be before someone else noticed that it's KendoU not kendo... the 'u' is necessary, folks. it's du rigeur, very stylish, you know.

(sorry, this is late i know, but i was vacationing.)

c

Is this one of those 'aitch' not 'haitch' things?
Is there some sort of underground movement to remove the 'U' from all written instances of kendoU? (If so, it's been pretty successful).
What about if you put the straight-line thingy over the 'o'?
(dunno the ascii for this character, sorry).
Thanks for the romaji lesson tho. v. helpful