Blue gi, black hakama; White gi, red hakama

**Toecutter** · 17th June 2009, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by Tachi-kaze

Hmm, thanks for this - I was a bit skeptical when I visited, but the dojo looked legitimately set up/decorated. That video was definitely strange I thought.

You're lucky enough to live in NY and have access to some great teachers, you can't go wrong with anyone on the list that Neil posted, there are some more if you're interested just do a search auskf and follow the links.

**Neil Gendzwill** · 17th June 2009, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Tachi-kaze

The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club.

He claims a lot of things on that website. If you search for his name on e-budo you will see that he is the subject of some controversy. Kataoka-sensei has an excellent reputation, by the way. If I recall correctly, he was born and raised in Japan and so would have learned much of his kendo there. Many of the senior instructors in the US and Canada are immigrants.

**Tachi-kaze** · 17th June 2009, 05:42 AM

Thank you all so much for enlightening me right off the batt. I'll certainly look into some AUSKF dojos in the area. I'm surprised I couldn't come up with any of these small ones when I was doing my google searching--mind you I didn't include the AUSKF part. I'm going to especially look into the Ken-Zen one, as it's particularly close to where I'll be living and I'll take a recommendation any day.

Oh, and fubatachan

Yes: wear a traditional indigo one until it fades.

Thank you very much! That must have been what happened to the one I got second-hand. Anyway I like physical signs of labors (the old white belt to black through training and dirtying of it always intrigued me).

All this is as warm a welcome as any here! Thanks so much for the advice and concerns, I'll take it to heart.

**Bruce Mitchell** · 17th June 2009, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Tachi-kaze

Why so many posts about Budo Kai Kan? Is it bad? I just started with them this past year since I recently moved to NYC for college. I've only been to a few classes. Yes, the instructor is Kendo Hachi Dan. He is the founder of the school and it is supposedly the oldest kendo school in New York City.

No, I have never seen women wear red hakama in class--I know you can buy them and they're available in the same places you can buy white, black, and navy ones. I thought I saw some at a tournament in Cleveland - maybe I'm remembering wrong and remember a red doh. I at least know that most women wore white gi. I just remember I got beaten to death at the end by a woman in white and red!

Anyway, anyone have any recommendation for a good blue gi somewhere?

I am going to try to give you a direct, honest answer. Is "Budo Kai Kan" bad? Yes. It falls into the category of what is typically called a McDojo, e.i. it is the fast-food, low value, worse than no-nutrition version of the martial arts. I think that it is interesting looking at the site because Mr. Rico Guy references legitimate teachers and organizations, but fails to mention that he does not belong to them, and even more interestingly, either outranks the top teachers of these groups or holds ranks equal to them. For instance he claims to have 10 Dan in Goju Ryu the same rank as Morio Higaonna, the head of the International Goju Ryu Karate Federation. Out here in the San Francisco Bay Area we have Yoshinari Miyata Sensei, Kendo Hachidan Hanshi (8th degree). He has been practicing Kendo for over 70 years. Yet Mr. Rico Guy, with all of his 30 years of experience outranks Miyata Sensei at 9th Dan! My advice is to put as much distance between yourself and this fraud as possible. Studying martial arts under someone like this is far, far worse than never studying anything at all. He may be the nicest guy in the world, he may well be the toughest guy in the world, but he is not being honest with you nor with himself. If, on the other hand, you like training at his dojo, good on you, enjoy, but please don't come to websites like this and expect to be mollycoddled.

If you are serious than you can find a good kendo dojo in New York here: http://www.auskf.info/dojo/ny.htm

If you want to study Goju Ryu at a school actually affiliated with the IOGKF then contact them here: http://www.iogkf.com/individual.html

As far as red hakama, these are popular on the American Karate circuit, they have no conection to traditional Japanese arts (other than the shrine ceremonies mentioned above).

**Chev-san** · 17th June 2009, 05:47 AM

I have only seen Miko (shrine maidens) wear white gi and red hakama

**Neil Gendzwill** · 17th June 2009, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Tachi-kaze

Anyway I like physical signs of labors (the old white belt to black through training and dirtying of it always intrigued me).

Yeah, that's a story that was made up. White/black belts were invented by Jigoro Kano for judo and his system has since been copied by many martial arts. Some add some mysticism to it with the "never wash your belt story". It's BS.

Good quality indigo-dyed keikogi and hakama fade very nicely.

**Tachi-kaze** · 17th June 2009, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Bruce Mitchell

I am going to try to give you a direct, honest answer. Is "Budo Kai Kan" bad? Yes. It falls into the category of what is typically called a McDojo, e.i. it is the fast-food, low value, worse than no-nutrition version of the martial arts. I think that it is interesting looking at the site because Mr. Rico Guy references legitimate teachers and organizations, but fails to mention that he does not belong to them, and even more interestingly, either outranks the top teachers of these groups or holds ranks equal to them. For instance he claims to have 10 Dan in Goju Ryu the same rank as Morio Higaonna, the head of the International Goju Ryu Karate Federation. Out here in the San Francisco Bay Area we have Yoshinari Miyata Sensei, Kendo Hachidan Hanshi (8th degree). He has been practicing Kendo for over 70 years. Yet Mr. Rico Guy, with all of his 30 years of experience outranks Miyata Sensei at 9th Dan! My advice is to put as much distance between yourself and this fraud as possible. Studying martial arts under someone like this is far, far worse than never studying anything at all. He may be the nicest guy in the world, he may well be the toughest guy in the world, but he is not being honest with you nor with himself. If, on the other hand, you like training at his dojo, good on you, enjoy, but please don't come to websites like this and expect to be mollycoddled.

If you are serious than you can find a good kendo dojo in New York here: http://www.auskf.info/dojo/ny.htm

If you want to study Goju Ryu at a school actually affiliated with the IOGKF then contact them here: http://www.iogkf.com/individual.html

As far as red hakama, these are popular on the American Karate circuit, they have no conection to traditional Japanese arts (other than the shrine ceremonies mentioned above).

Thank you for being so direct - I honestly had no idea there were such things as "McDojos" in the Kendo world. Of course in the field of more common martial arts, yes, but I had no idea about the Kendo ones. I suppose that comes from growing up in a small town (one thing i HATE about small towns and why i got the hell out ASAP). I only discovered Kendo through a demonstration 6 years ago in Old Montreal. Went home and searched for Kendo in my area and was extremely lucky to find it right in my backyard in Ohio, so no questions asked after that. Luckily, Kiraly-sensei WAS affiliated with the AUSKF--though when I joined I had no idea what that meant. I didn't even know kendo existed before that. I didn't ask for their help in finding Dojos out in New York, which was a stupid idea, even though they probably wouldn't have known any except the big one with Kataoka-sensei. They probably could have told me though to make sure whatever dojo I found was AUSKF legit. Dunno what possessed me not to ask.

Anyway I hope you understand how grateful I am for being told of all this--I never would have known otherwise. I'm CERTAINLY going to take that AUSKF list you guys gave me and investigate as many places as I can, and good riddance to bad rubbish to Budo Kai Kan--that's the end of that!

**Justice_wolf** · 17th June 2009, 06:32 AM

=] I'm glad you were able to get help Lannie. Though I can't help but say I told you so.

Can't trust a man to be a propper teacher when he says "I don't brag about my skills." and in the same breath "The only reason I don't fight on the street is because If I fight them, I have to kill them."

I don't study Kendo, or any other sword art. But I am a martial artist. And I know a bad dojo when I see one. Within five minutes of talking with the man, I knew I wouldn't be going there. Even if I had the money for it.
I look forward to helping you find a good dojo that will teach you right. Help you focus mind and body propperly, without misguided arogance.

Even though kendo is incredibly important to you, Training with a bad teacher is like using a tooth brush in place of your usual size 0 round on your masterpeice. As much as you love it and want to keep working on it. Its always better to wait until you have the right brush. Accept no substitutes.

-Lots of luck and Love, Wolfy <3

**eon** · 17th June 2009, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Tachi-kaze

Hmm, thanks for this - I was a bit skeptical when I visited, but the dojo looked legitimately set up/decorated. That video was definitely strange I thought. Luckily I didn't pay anything yet. There are many attendees and they seem very dedicated. The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club. I wanted to go to that one but it was too far uptown - I live on the lower east side. Though it may be worth it in the end. I thought the teaching was a bit different too; different than what I'd been taught at least for the past 5 years at my small-town Dojo in Ohio. Kiraly-sensei studied with Dr. Tetsuya Higuchi until Higuchi-sensei went back to Japan, so he has been unable to level up past 1st Dan even though he's been teaching for years and years.

Kataoka Sensei has been a great practitioner and a competitive player in all parts of the world. Kataoka sensei began the study of kendo from the age of 15 in Kochi, Japan, a prefecture known for developing strong, talented kendo players. By 1972, his reputation for winning tournaments brought him the honor of being chosen a member of the Kochi team that played in the All Japan Kendo Tournament. The Kochi team placed 2nd in this prestigious event.

Coming to the North American continent in the 1970’s, Sensei also participated in international tournaments in addition to starting NYC Kendo Club. (http://www.nyckendo.com/sensei.html)

So yeah, I suggest you stay far away from this McDojo. NYC Kendo club is an excellent club and very well worth the trip even if its a bit far for you.

http://www.nyckendo.com/

**nodachi** · 17th June 2009, 07:49 AM

I will repeat as others have said that there are many AEUSKF affiliated dojos that are so good in NYC that you are very lucky. Pick any of these and you really can't go wrong.

**rainmaker** · 17th June 2009, 08:28 AM

I have practiced with Kataoka sensei numerous times and has been trying to learn Jodan Kamae from him. As a matter of fact, he will visit Orlando in July. His Kendo and Iaido are very facinating and there is no way you can compare him with this SOB....

I am a nidan and I think I can beat him...... really...... I mean really.....

Originally Posted by Tachi-kaze

The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club.

**Tachi-kaze** · 17th June 2009, 10:46 AM

Aww man, I feel so stupid for getting involved with that McDojo. I'm so glad you guys told me about that - I'm lucky I didn't get in too deep. I'm absolutely going to look for any of those AUSKF dojos. I think I'll try the Ken-Zen Institute first, but I've heard so many great things about Kataoka-sensei that I may end up going there after all. It's just about fitting in the transportation time with all my homework from college. Seems like, from what you all have said, I'd really be missing out if I didn't go to Kataoka-sensei.

Anyway thanks again for everything, guys - I'll post a thread about the AUSKF dojo I join this coming September when I move back out there for college! (Meanwhile of course I'll talk about other things on this forum)

I'm gonna get one of those indigo gi's too

**tango** · 17th June 2009, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Tachi-kaze

Hmm, thanks for this - I was a bit skeptical when I visited, but the dojo looked legitimately set up/decorated. That video was definitely strange I thought. Luckily I didn't pay anything yet. There are many attendees and they seem very dedicated. The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club. I wanted to go to that one but it was too far uptown - I live on the lower east side. Though it may be worth it in the end. I thought the teaching was a bit different too; different than what I'd been taught at least for the past 5 years at my small-town Dojo in Ohio. Kiraly-sensei studied with Dr. Tetsuya Higuchi until Higuchi-sensei went back to Japan, so he has been unable to level up past 1st Dan even though he's been teaching for years and years.

I have seen Kataoka-sensei's kendo.
I have seen this BudoKanKai head instructor's kendo now on that website.
There is no way I would ever believe that that guy taught Kataoka-sensei kendo.

No. Way.

**tango** · 17th June 2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tachi-kaze

Aww man, I feel so stupid for getting involved with that McDojo. I'm so glad you guys told me about that - I'm lucky I didn't get in too deep. I'm absolutely going to look for any of those AUSKF dojos. I think I'll try the Ken-Zen Institute first, but I've heard so many great things about Kataoka-sensei that I may end up going there after all. It's just about fitting in the transportation time with all my homework from college. Seems like, from what you all have said, I'd really be missing out if I didn't go to Kataoka-sensei.

Anyway thanks again for everything, guys - I'll post a thread about the AUSKF dojo I join this coming September when I move back out there for college! (Meanwhile of course I'll talk about other things on this forum)

I'm gonna get one of those indigo gi's too

Both Ebihara-sensei and Kataoka-sensei have very good, reputable schools in NYC. There are a few of their students here on kendo world as well. If you post something in the Dojo forum on this board, maybe one of those guys will catch it and you can hook up with them since they're right on the the scene. Great guys all of them...