"Karate guy" with a katana

[ScottUK]

Mr Arias,

I have a serious question.

Why do you constantly refer to Toshishiro Obata, someone you revere, as "Obata" and yet you refer to Bren Foster, a complete muppet, as "Mr Foster"? Do you have no respect for Mr Obata or are you so close you call each other by family names? Does he, over a barbeque, shout "oi, Arias, pass the wasabi"?

I think:

a) you are misguided and arguing just to get yourself out of a hole,

b) Mr Foster shouldn't be demonstrating sword work on TV when he hasn't studied it,

c) you shouldn't be taking JSA tips from a product of XMA, and

d) Dan Weber is my hero for politely explaining why Gibbo et al managed to hit the tool, er, nail on the head.

Well, that's all from me, a guy who doesn't hide behind a pseudonym either - a quick google (or a click on the link in my sig) will tell you my full name and what I do - and I sit here at 23:10 UK time sticking two fingers up to budo bullshitters everywhere.

Goodnight!

[Ricky Arias]

Hi Ricky, nice to see you so passionate about what you do. I am fairly passionate about JSA myself, and I do both kendo, as well as koryu, for a few years now. As a result of the koryu, I have been able to observe, as well as participate, in a decent amount of tameshigiri, as well as get the kendo view on JSA. As a result, I feel I am reasonably qualified, but by no means the sole authority, on why both Obata and Bren could be viewed as "tools", or "twats" by a good portion of the JSA community, as a result of their behaviour on "Fight Science".
Firstly, with Obata, no matter his pedigree, or perceived (or actual) cutting skill, he is a tool because he a) had his students hold targets for him while he was actually cutting. Granted, they may not have been in a great deal of danger, as I do not know how god-like Obata truly is, but safety is always, ALWAYS, a concern in tameshigiri, and even a tool such as myself can recognize a fellow tool when he does something as dumbass as having a student hold a target that you are going after with a live blade. Stupid. However, not as stupid as b) cutting directly towards a student with a live blade and stopping just short of their head. That is really stupid, tool-like, McDojo behaviour, and Obata should be embarrassed that he put his student at such risk. However, he probably isn't, which in this case, reinforces that, for the purposes of "Fight Science" Obata is a tool.
As for Bren, he is a very handsome, athletic, strapping young lad, who probably has loads of potential, who didn't do a single thing on the TV that looked like a martial art in any way. Sure, it was pretty, for the most part, sure it was flashy, and it took a decent amount of agility and reflexes not to cut himself wide open if that was a real blade, but it wasn't martial arts. If Bren had presented himself as not being a martial artist in terms of real JSA, and had just said "Hey, I'm Bren Foster, XMA/Chanbara master of all things ass-kickery, just not JSA" then I would have looked at his weaponised dance sequences a whole lot differently, and enjoyed them more. However, he didn't do this, and allowed himself to be presented as someone who knew more than just a little about JSA.
As for the ballistics gel, Bren is a tool on Fight Science because of the way he hacks apart the torso, while trying to give the appearance of knowing what he is doing. Which he obviously doesn't. Cutting something isn't particularly hard; cutting consistently and properly with correct technique is something different. Bren had absolutely no idea how to cut a target of that size correctly. Obata is a tool for not agreeing to cut the thing, since he already displayed an egregious level of retardation by endangering his students; cutting ballistics gel would have done little to further damage his rep.
How do I know Bren had absolutely no idea of how to cut a target that size correctly? Because he didn't cut through it correctly. Could I have cut something like that in two in one cut; quite possibly, as I have cut futomaki targets of similar width and density. I have seen people far more skilled than me cut larger targets successfully using correct technique. Most of these people have left their shirts on while doing so (and for good reason! Seriously, some of us need to cut back on the beeru) and no-one spun around in twirly circles, screaming or "kiai-ing" the whole time.
Is Bren a good guy? You say he is, so I am sure he probably is. Him acting the fool by allowing himself to be portrayed on TV as a exponent of JSA, when he obviously isn't, has nothing to do with him being a good guy, or someone we wouldn't want to get to know, or someone who would or wouldn't talk trash about other people. It does however, open him up to criticism from the JSA community for allowing himself to be portrayed as something he isn't.
As for your criticisms of kendo; I can see some of your points. However, if you are ever in Chicago and want to come to a dojo and not be disappointed too much talking and not enough sweating, or "less chat, more mat", feel free to PM me, and I can bring you along to meet a group of serious kendoka, or can even give you a taste of koryu on a different night if you're interested.
As an aside, this is my real name, and I have no problems with either Obata or Bren reading what I said. The evidence speaks for itself. Best of luck in your budo journey. Just remember, in the flames section of KW, we're all just moving targets.

Well said sir... I respect your opinion being you are stating is from an experience of more than just one view of JSA or martial arts in general. Yes the XMA thing is silly and I pointed such out to Mr Foster when meeting him. But watching him in Tae Kwon do and some Bo staff work there is more to him than just what the show presents... A guy who can put 917 lbs for force in a punch and 1,572 lbs of force in a kick is not a guy I would want to face head to head. I dont think anyone can make a claim that he has no skill being able to move with that kind of force and speed.


My gripe is just that there was an insult more on the man and not what was performed. As for obata and the holding the bamboo I could do without the dodan cut at the head at the end. That is just where I draw the line.


As for the training as soon as I can beef up my skills and be able to stand on the same floor as being a good opponent. I am saving up to be able to travel at different dojos around the world. I could add you to the list. There is a Dojo in Canada and one in New mexico ahead of you

[xvikingx]

Rick, as I suspected you are clearly arguing for the sake of arguing. What other purpose could you possibly have here considering how offended you are by what is written. Why else would you keep coming back?

As Gibbo said earlier, welcome to teh interwebz. I think it is time to invest in a thicker skin, because you are a class A cry baby.

[The great I AM]

Great I am,

WOW I did not think you could really get any lower. I was wrong I guess. Funny thing about That Gekken video is that it is not a Toyama specific video. A few of the guys are and the Host is the Batto Do head cheese. You just admitted that you would rather cling to you "Pure sport" than look at what realistic sword work looks like. And in the progress of a few posts you managed to talk smack about not only Obata Sensei by saying he "Made things up" but you you poke fun at the Toyama style that was the last sword style used in actual combat..... WOW Are you going to insult Nakamura next? He stated in an article that some of the best kendoka of his time were former members of the Toyama academy... You going to call him a Liar?

Didn't Obata MAKE UP Shinkendo.....or am I wrong?

And yes, I would rather do kendo than something someone else has made up or is trying to make fat coin out of, because that's not what I'm after, thanks. I will happily look at real sword schools, but a fat chubber in video getting lumped on the shoulders doesn't look like real sword work to me. And look at the attacks that show no regard for ones saftey if they were using ACTUAL SHINKEN (Like the ducking flying lunge) is that really Toyama ryu? If so, couldn't you have found a better example that shows it in a more "professional" light.....tell you what, as I LIVE IN JAPAN, the home of JAPANESE sword arts, maybe, I'll check it out myself. Here you are. I dunno Ricky, looks a little, well, different?

I don't know who Nakamura is, I work with a Nakamura, would you like me to insult her instead? Maybe a load of great past kendoka did learn under Nakamura Hakudo and Takano Sasaburo, but that has nothing to do with Obata's questionable ethics, does it? You know it's funny though, I've never EVER seen very senior kendo bods write derogatory or self engratiating stuff like I've seen from Obata. I have seen one with a Facebook profile though, does that count?

"I saw a program on Japanese-language television in Los Angeles this year in which members of a prefectural kendo federation in northeastern Japan attempted to cut makiwara of thin bamboo as part of a ceremony to mark the beginning of the New Year. It was terrible. None of the shihan or sensei could cut even a single makiwara. Finally, the mayor took the sword and succeeded using a diagonal cut. I was surprised to see that on television. I wondered what kendo has become and I was upset I thought they should change the name from kendo to something else. As I watched their disgraceful performance (maybe the participants didn’t feel ashamed, I don’t know), I felt that I couldn’t just look on it as someone else’s problem, and I strongly felt the need to introduce Shinkendo to Japan."


"Once I received a telephone call from a young swordsman with twenty-five years of experience in kendo. He was a bit proud of himself as a longtime practitioner of kendo and he said he wanted to watch me cut bamboo with a sword. I demonstrated using some of the thick-stemmed bamboo that grows in my backyard. He took some of the pieces I had cut home with him and tried cutting them himself. I suppose he thought he could easily cut the bamboo using the grip he had learned in modern kendo. He was unsuccessful, of course; thick-stemmed bamboo like that is not at all easy to cut. Somewhat disheartened by his failure, he began to question the value and meaning of all the kendo he had learned. He brightened up a little when I told him to think of kendo as just a fine sport."

How is this supposed to viewed in any other way? Like I said, the ethics of a wet fart. Just going around bad mouthing other people on teh interwbez/TV/in magazines etc. How is that supposed to make him ANY BETTER THAN ANY OF THIS? He's just as bad as I am!

Oh, and when was Obata planning on bringing Shinkendo to Japan? And if that's his goal why did he go to the US to start it.....? Perhaps you can answer those questions?

I did a search in Japanese on Google and the first page that came up was............the AMERICAN HONBU! Score. The next was an iai related page (with pictures that looked suspiciously like iai.....) and the 3rd was a Kayaking club. I found MANY references to iai, and funnily enough, not a single Japan based page for Obata's shinkendo, nor any actual reference to him. Admittedly I only spent 15 minutes going over the first page of a google search....but you would have thought........ Perhaps, Ricky, you can point me in the right direction....?

And yes I poked fun at Toyama, in the same way you poked fun at what I do. Funny thing, hipocrisy, eh? (I'll freely admit to being very guilty of it myself at times, but hey ho, pot and kettle and all that. I love my kettle!)

And as for Obata himself, it is the worst kept secret that he wrote A NINJA BOOK under a pen name, and coined in loads of fat cash. THE BOOK IS STILL BEING SOLD, so perhaps he is still making money from it......do the search Ricky, it's all there.

I can't dispute Obata's swords "skillz" because he's the man as far as that is concerned (and I will also happily admit that too), but shit Ricky, writing Ninja books under pen names, being beat up by the ninja turtles, making up Shinkendo because you don't like the stuff you saw on TV, publically decrying kendo because we're not real sword fighters, the list goes on. For crying out loud.

Oh, and I can go MUCH lower than this. Ask around.

teh interwebz

Thanks for the spelling correction. I always spell it "the" when I'm not looking. Silly me!

Teh interwbez rool!



edit: Dan Weber, I wish I was like you! (Sometimes, being me is fun too!)

[xvikingx]

I work with a Nakamura, would you like me to insult her instead?

I would!!!


So I am trying to figure out at which point Ricky went from defending Bren Foster and putting down Obata's (and Shinkendo) actions, to defending Obata. Ricky, do you have ADD?

[Dan Weber]

D


edit: Dan Weber, I wish I was like you! (Sometimes, being me is fun too!)

Well, let's see, I write pretty on a forum but you're actually good at kendo; doesn't sound like you should want to be me...unless you want to be ridiculously handsome of course.....in which case I completely understand.

[Ricky Arias]

Great I Am,


Nakamura Taizaburo was 10th Dan Hanshi Battōdō, 7th Dan Kyoshi Kendo, 8th Dan Hanshi Jukendō and 8th Dan Hanshi, Tankendō. He was awarded the highest cultural award in Japan of National Living Treasure by Imperial decree in 1992. He was pretty much the driving force of JSA in the modern time. He and a handful of sensei were the last real combative swordsmen.


Obata Sensei is the founder of skinkendo. In an piece he wrote he said



"The Japanese battodo world can be very indulgent with foreigners. I’ve heard of some non-Japanese receiving fifth dans after as little as half a year’s worth of Saturday training, or taking Remy Martin [an expensive liquor] as a gift and receiving third dan after only one lesson. Rumor has it that an Englishman stayed only two weeks and visited a number of different budo dojos and went home with a total of twenty dan rankings. What a complete joke!

A person who had gone to Japan and received a fifth dan came to visit me with an introduction from Nakamura Sensei who had urged him to study with me. I told him that if he already had a fifth dan then he was ready to begin teaching. He confided, however, that he had trained once a week for a half year, and in any case he had not understood Japanese in the beginning and so was unable to comprehend the teacher’s explanations. Furthermore, he had no experience in tameshigiri, which is very important in battodo, and he had never even had a chance to handle a live blade. He learned these things after he came to me, but his level was equal to about fifth kyu in Shinkendo. The Japanese do this sort of thing again and again, and that’s why battodo has been split into so many different branches. I think it’s terrible, especially with all those ridiculous rankings. I’ve heard that this sort of thing happens in other martial arts as well.

As far as teaching methods are concerned, I got tired of people making all sorts of analyses of things that I had discovered long ago. I got tired of the low level, so I basically threw battodo to the wind and created a new budo, Shinkendo. Althoug it’s a new budo, it has depth and a foundation in real sword techniques. Shinkendo is a real example of something that gets more interesting the more you practice it-“Continuation leads to ability,” as the saying goes."


As for the Gekken there really is no way to look to impressive in a freestyle fight. Unlike a drill or kata in sparring most of what takes over is speed and the bare basics.

http://www.hksword.com/3_info/3_3_cu...1/fight_05.htm


Here you have two high ranking swordsmen doing Gekken. Does not look very fast and is not all to flashy. One would expect more from two experienced high ranking swordsmen if you did not know what you were looking at.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INB1odZkZo0



A clip of swordsmen of various rank and backgrounds doing Gekken. The basics again is most of what you see. And Again no hopping around and there is still the use of proper tenouchi. I think swordsmen from all backgrounds could profit from this.



Honestly guys I do not want to develop "thicker skin" when it comes to stuff like this. It does make me sad when people attack other people they dont know for believing differently then they do. It is something I just refuse to get used to. I guess its the human condition to some extent. But that does not mean we should turn a blind eye to it. But I think that is enough for now. If anyone has any legit questions not intended to harm another person I would be delighted to answer as long as the conversation remains civil. Again guys thank you for your time and I hope we can all make more of an attempt to be just a little more excepting.

[Ricky Arias]

Point to this is no one is without fault and no one persons way is fried gold to the eyes of all people. So knowing this why done we just agree to let live. Obata sensei and Mr Foster should not be disrespected by people who dont know then and have never trained on the same mat. Even more so when those doing it know it is the wrong thing to do but do so anyway. I wish there was some way to get the mods to remove this section of this forum all together. It would be better for the greater good of all people.

[xvikingx]

But I think that is enough for now.

It was enough 2 pages ago.

If anyone has any legit questions not intended to harm another person I would be delighted to answer as long as the conversation remains civil.

There were plenty of legit, civil questions that you conveniently dodged.

[ScottUK]

I am curious as to why Mr Arias hasn't answered my serious query...

[Ricky Arias]

Sorry about that. I went to a seminar Obata did, but never actually met him. He does not speak to much English and I dont speak Japanese so even if I had tried to talk to him it would not go very far. If you guys would prefer I write "Toshishiro Obata from now on or Obata Sensei thats fine. I call Bren Foster Mr. Foster because when I met him some people called him "Master" witch I was told by my friend was more common in Korean arts. While some people called him Sensei. Since I was not a student of that dojo or Korean arts in general and I was just there to observe I called him Mr. Foster. I would not read to much into it. Besides if I called him master or sensei I think it would just add more fuel to the fire.

[The great I AM]

Well, let's see, I write pretty on a forum but you're actually good at kendo; doesn't sound like you should want to be me...unless you want to be ridiculously handsome of course.....in which case I completely understand.

I don't know about good at kendo....I'm in something of a transitional phase at the moment derived from not feeling very "good" at all.......

As for handsome like you.....face lift please.

Great I Am,


Nakamura Taizaburo was 10th Dan Hanshi Battōdō, 7th Dan Kyoshi Kendo, 8th Dan Hanshi Jukendō and 8th Dan Hanshi, Tankendō. He was awarded the highest cultural award in Japan of National Living Treasure by Imperial decree in 1992. He was pretty much the driving force of JSA in the modern time. He and a handful of sensei were the last real combative swordsmen.


Obata Sensei is the founder of skinkendo. In an piece he wrote he said



"The Japanese battodo world can be very indulgent with foreigners. I’ve heard of some non-Japanese receiving fifth dans after as little as half a year’s worth of Saturday training, or taking Remy Martin [an expensive liquor] as a gift and receiving third dan after only one lesson. Rumor has it that an Englishman stayed only two weeks and visited a number of different budo dojos and went home with a total of twenty dan rankings. What a complete joke!

A person who had gone to Japan and received a fifth dan came to visit me with an introduction from Nakamura Sensei who had urged him to study with me. I told him that if he already had a fifth dan then he was ready to begin teaching. He confided, however, that he had trained once a week for a half year, and in any case he had not understood Japanese in the beginning and so was unable to comprehend the teacher’s explanations. Furthermore, he had no experience in tameshigiri, which is very important in battodo, and he had never even had a chance to handle a live blade. He learned these things after he came to me, but his level was equal to about fifth kyu in Shinkendo. The Japanese do this sort of thing again and again, and that’s why battodo has been split into so many different branches. I think it’s terrible, especially with all those ridiculous rankings. I’ve heard that this sort of thing happens in other martial arts as well.

As far as teaching methods are concerned, I got tired of people making all sorts of analyses of things that I had discovered long ago. I got tired of the low level, so I basically threw battodo to the wind and created a new budo, Shinkendo. Althoug it’s a new budo, it has depth and a foundation in real sword techniques. Shinkendo is a real example of something that gets more interesting the more you practice it-“Continuation leads to ability,” as the saying goes."


As for the Gekken there really is no way to look to impressive in a freestyle fight. Unlike a drill or kata in sparring most of what takes over is speed and the bare basics.

http://www.hksword.com/3_info/3_3_cu...1/fight_05.htm


Here you have two high ranking swordsmen doing Gekken. Does not look very fast and is not all to flashy. One would expect more from two experienced high ranking swordsmen if you did not know what you were looking at.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INB1odZkZo0



A clip of swordsmen of various rank and backgrounds doing Gekken. The basics again is most of what you see. And Again no hopping around and there is still the use of proper tenouchi. I think swordsmen from all backgrounds could profit from this.



Honestly guys I do not want to develop "thicker skin" when it comes to stuff like this. It does make me sad when people attack other people they dont know for believing differently then they do. It is something I just refuse to get used to. I guess its the human condition to some extent. But that does not mean we should turn a blind eye to it. But I think that is enough for now. If anyone has any legit questions not intended to harm another person I would be delighted to answer as long as the conversation remains civil. Again guys thank you for your time and I hope we can all make more of an attempt to be just a little more excepting.

Dude, if you want polite and manners, go look at the other thread, I was nice to the guy who doesn't keep posting questionable videos to back up his ravings (look at just before 4 minutes on the youtube stuff if you want to know what I mean. There is a difference between sutemi and attacking with no riai....) but I digress. It's just one (!) video.

On Nakamura, my bad, wrong guy. Like I said, don't who he is. Nice credentials though, but my dig was never at him in the first place, you would have seen that if you had read anything I wrote properly......

As for Obata's comments that you have quoted, again, the more you post that crap the more I think that his attitude is amazingly arrogant and pretentious, and not just a little to do with selling himself as being much more knowledgable than every other Japanese dude who touches a sword, shinai, or bokuto, pick your penis.

It's funny how NOTHING that you post demonstrates the humility that the greater part of high graded kendo teachers I have met demonstrate pretty much all the time. As the face and creator of Shinkendo, from what you post of him, it just looks liek his attitude totally sucks. Why would I think anything else of the guy? You're right I haven't met him, and the biggest points of reference I have are the shinkendo website, other stuff I can find, and your constant postings about him telling the world how he is better than everyone else, no one understands what he does, and how he wants to teach Japan what it'd doing wrong with kendo. Very bombastic. The best one is how he got tired of the low level. PERFECT! The low level. IN JAPAN.

Come on, show me why comments like that deserve my respect. Posting that and telling me I should be respecting the man shows you to be the Goober (Cheers PG!) that you are.

[Wraith]

Wraith,


Thanks man.

Hey, no problem! You "stick it to 'em" Ricky!

Your posts are really warming up now, I can see you're on a roll..........

[Rennis]

Nakamura Taizaburo was 10th Dan.... (snip).... He was pretty much the driving force of JSA in the modern time.

No disrespect to the late Nakamura at all but I think many, if not most, senior sword practitioners I know in Japan would strongly disagree with the last part of that statement (including some people I know who knew him personally). Yes, Nakamura was very influential in "certain" circles, namely the Toyama-ryu circles and his particular branch of it, but outside of being a very public face of tameshigiri (a practice that has a very wide range of opinion going both for and against it), I wouldn't consider him much of "a" driving force of modern JSA, much less "the" driving force. I have found that general impressions and opinion about the art overseas, where it spread very rapidly in the past decade or so, are often quite different than those in Japan, where Toyama-ryu is not nearly as major a school as many think (not that that is a bad thing mind you).

Ducking out before I get pulled into this any further,
Rennis Buchner

[ccheck5]

lol i saw that shinkendo sensei at nesei week in lil tokyo a couple of years ago. he had the power ranger school of martial arts open for him. true shit lol.