Interested in Kendo or Wannabe Samurai?

[Goodguy]

I've been wondering about something for a while now; at what point does a person stop being interested in Kendo and/or Japanese culture, and start becoming just another wannabe Samurai/Ninja saddo??

I'm not talking about the kids who come along after watching far too much TMNT, and ask when they get to 'play with the big swords' (that's a quote btw).
What about the people who turn up and say they've read the Hagakure, or the Go Rin No Sho, or who say they've got The Seven Samurai and Yojimbo and have always been great fans of Kurosawa's work?

I suppose what I'm really asking is, at what point does a person stop having a (fairly) healthy interest in another culture, and become just another wish-fulfillment saddo?

[Shiro]

Good question..... I think it's when he starts throwing away all the chairs and switching to tatami.....

But seriously, I think it's when they start neglecting their own culture. I am fascinated by Japan in general and that's what brought me to kendo but my intrest in this art is genuine. I don't bow because it's Japanese, I bow to show my grattitude towards the person I bow to.
Some people tend to forget they should fit the principles of kendo to their lives, not change their life to fit the principles and the vision they have of Japan.

[sminki]

I've read The Book of Five Rings and have the 7 Samurai, Sanjuro and Yojimbo on DVD. I don't consider myself a fanatic by any means though.

Once, I've heard about a person in NY who got himself a top knot and walked around with a bokken. - Now THAT'S a bit much.

[Musha]

I was already like that a year before I started Kendo ,
I really love Japan and my aim is to be 100% fluent in Japanese and live there. But I love the new Japan as much as the old.

There is nothing at all wrong with wanting to be a samurai. I think of a samurai as some one that tries hard in every thing he does with no fear, samurai also have other skills like art and literature they are also kind and polite smart and diligent. I was watching a documentary about Miyamoto musashi and a young Japanese girl of 14 doing kendo said "I admire Miyamoto musashi because he tried very hard with what he did I and want to be like that".

Although this view could be as unrealistic as the samurai in some comics. The seven samurai was even partly about washing away the myth of the samurai. In one part, one samurai said on another question about a battle "I survived hiding in a ditch". But I think some part of the myth are still worth thinking about.

The people that you are talking about are thinking of the fantasy badly viewed point of view of the samurai from comics and badly translated anime. If you fight in an aggressive arrogant and showy way and are unwilling to learn it is bad for kendo. You will be a slow fighter and it will be hard for you to get far probably get bored and start Ninjitsu .

Please don't class every one that likes traditional Japan in the same way.

[John W]

I am very interested in Japanese culture simply because it is far removed from my own.

Kendo gives you an insight into Japanese culture but that is about it. To truly appreciate another culture you have to be there in person.

[Shazzanzzz]

not talking about people who wants to be a samurai, if you just think about people who wants to learn kendo or iaido because they want to beat people up on the street, there's something wrong with them. Kendo doesn't really apply in the real world anymore, in the physical sense, because doesn't matter how strong you get, if someone has a gun, you can't win, that is especially true in America, where guns are so easy to get. I really don't like it when i see people who think like that.

[ALI G]

not talking about people who wants to be a samurai, if you just think about people who wants to learn kendo or iaido because they want to beat people up on the street, there's something wrong with them. Kendo doesn't really apply in the real world anymore, in the physical sense, because doesn't matter how strong you get, if someone has a gun, you can't win, that is especially true in America, where guns are so easy to get. I really don't like it when i see people who think like that.

True Dat....Juzt likez Mystic-Kendo...hez waz axing aboutz carryingz aroundz da bokkenz & how 2 defeetz da enemiez....wuz upz wit dat?????????

[mingshi]

With 37 beginners registering in my London dojo last Tuesday, this Last Samurai + Kill Bill phenomenon is far more amazing then the movies themselves. (18 more on Friday, as I have been told --Ouch!)

I said to my kohai, "Can you tell who is going to stay?" I don't know whether a bigger group will affect the 90% drop-out rate.

There is a starting point for everyone when it comes to taking up a martial art. From wanting to keep fit, self-defence, to books and the mass media, there is something you want to get out of it in the first place. At the first few months people are just trying to find what they want. Some realizes it may not be as what they expect kendo to be like. I would say it is rather stupid to start jumping into the dojo right away without watching a class.

Do they have the commitment? Are they going to see beyond the obvious? There are also plenty of reasons why people want to leave. Can you stay as a Samurai-wannabe forever? Probably those who take Samurai as their training goal will later find that there is no such thing, and then they left. But if they instead discover the true beauty of what kendo is, and the hard work behind it, then they'll probably stay for longer.

There are a lot of people out there who trains in martial arts, who are so engaged into the "self" part of the training, and forget about how their training would mean in a larger picture. Would a 1000 suburi help you understand more about kendo, or would you rather spend the time reading about the Japanese culture? Afterall it is swinging bamboo sticks, yelling and hitting people. You may be doing the "to mold the mind and spirit" bit, but what about "to contribute to the development of culture"? You simply can't detach the training from its principles.

Samurai -blah, blah, blah... Just how many of them beginners, besides the movies, actually read an article or two about Japanese history? (I m not even talking about a book) Seriously too much philosophy on military glory, loyality and honour can sometimes leads to Rape of Nanjing, Kamikaze and all the nasty parts. If you say "I love the Japanese culture", you cannot escape from knowing and be aware of the opposite side of the coin.

It's like wearing some Nike trainers without knowing the sweatshop in SE Asia.

My 2 pence.

[xvikingx]

With 37 beginners registering in my London dojo last Tuesday, this Last Samurai + Kill Bill phenomenon is far more amazing then the movies themselves......
My 2 pence.

Yeah, preach it sister!
Wait, I just had a break through. Tell all the samurai newbies that if they want out, they have to face West and commit seppuku.

[JimB]

I would say it depends on the individual and their state of mind.

Using myself as an example: I eat Japanese food, drink sake, and practice Kendo. I am also learning to speak the Japanese language and write in hiragana and katakana, and read extensively about feudal Japan. I wouldn't even think of comparing myself to a samurai or even a native Japanese person though, I just love the culture and the many wonderful Japanese people I have met. It takes a total separation from reality to occur for a person to want to emulate another culture's antiquated social class in a present day society.

I feel this separation can begin for some people when they lack a logical reason to emulate that culture's social customs and values. Personally, I hope to spend a year in Japan just soaking up the culture, meeting new and interesting people and if possible practicing Kendo. If I lacked this solid, logical reason to be learning all this stuff (attending Kendo classes, preparing for my September trip, etc.) then I could see these things being viewed as more of an obsession than a healthy interest in another culture. IMHO thats where you have to draw the line or a person could be on the slippery slope towards becoming the wish-fulfillment saddo you mentioned.

[Katsuya]

Its mainly about the need to learn. Part of the reason is also i am kind of influenced by the culture of japan. I don't practice kendo just to go out and beat up people and boast crap. If i wanted to beat people up why not just pull a strap out and pop someone and send them to the high heavens? Or just hide in the shadows and shank some homeboyz with a carving knife?
learning kendo is to chill myself out and let it guide me with my mental and physical self.


--it is hard to determine a silent person whether they are stupid or smart. But when that persons speaks to give an opinion. It is easy to determine.--

[Kenshin Himura]

*shrugs* I'm only 14.. and I'm interested in this stuff.. After my little agrgument with another member, xvikingx, I thought to myself "Am I really following a fantasy, or do I really want to do this?" and so far... I could care less about "swinging a big sword around". I wouldnt mind if the best I could work with would be a tonto (although I do own 2 katana and a bo-staff). But I'm not mainly interested in swinging big swords around and invading places and being all "big". I like the Japanese culture. It interests me much, including Bushido and such. Well.. anyways.. I need to learn Japanese too, since I'm going to try and get into an exchange program to Japan to learn about thier culture and such. *shrugs*

[Seta]

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to be like a samurai either. Being a samurai doesn't only mean you practice kenjutsu , which by the way wasn't the only martial art they practiced. They were skilled in various martial arts (e.g.Kyudo - The Way of the Bow). And what about the seven tenets of Bushido.



Gi: The concept of honesty and justice, a samurai believes in justice not in others but himself. A true samurai knows no shades of grey in the question of honesty and justice. There is only right and wrong.

Rei: The concept of polite curiosity. Samurai have no reason to be cruel. A samurai is courteous even to his enemies, without this outward show of respect we are no better than animals. A samurai is not only respected by his strength in battle but also in their treatment of other men.

Yu: The concept of heroic courage. Considered one of the main reasons samurai have such a place in the celestial order. Always remember that heroic courage is not blind, it is intelligent and strong. Replace fear with respect and caution.

Meyo: The concept of honor. After all is said and done there is only one judge of a samurai's honor, himself. Always remember you cannot run from yourself.

Jin: The concept of compassion. Through training a samurai becomes a mighty warrior. A samurai must use that gift for the good of all. He helps his fellow men at every opportunity, if the chance does not come up he will actively seek an opportunity.

Makoto: The concept of complete sincerity. When a samurai says he will perform an action it is as good as done, nothing can keep him from his duty. There is no promise or swearing only the fact that speaking and doing are the same action.

Chugo: The concept of duty and loyalty. This all breaks down in to responsibility, responsibility for the clan, responsibility for ones actions and responsibility to those in his care.

[trainedkilla]

You mean I can't be a real samurai????

[Wout]

Gi: The concept of honesty and justice, a samurai believes in justice not in others but himself. A true samurai knows no shades of grey in the question of honesty and justice. There is only right and wrong.

Rei: The concept of polite curiosity. Samurai have no reason to be cruel. A samurai is courteous even to his enemies, without this outward show of respect we are no better than animals. A samurai is not only respected by his strength in battle but also in their treatment of other men.

Yu: The concept of heroic courage. Considered one of the main reasons samurai have such a place in the celestial order. Always remember that heroic courage is not blind, it is intelligent and strong. Replace fear with respect and caution.

Meyo: The concept of honor. After all is said and done there is only one judge of a samurai's honor, himself. Always remember you cannot run from yourself.

Jin: The concept of compassion. Through training a samurai becomes a mighty warrior. A samurai must use that gift for the good of all. He helps his fellow men at every opportunity, if the chance does not come up he will actively seek an opportunity.

Makoto: The concept of complete sincerity. When a samurai says he will perform an action it is as good as done, nothing can keep him from his duty. There is no promise or swearing only the fact that speaking and doing are the same action.

Chugo: The concept of duty and loyalty. This all breaks down in to responsibility, responsibility for the clan, responsibility for ones actions and responsibility to those in his care.

Gi: yeah the stuff what fundamentalism is made of.

Rei: you might call it two-faced to be courtious to your enemy

yu: courage is something for those who wanna die young, no matter how intelligent

meyo: selfrightiousness at it's best

Jin: Do you mean all ppl or just the ones who aren't evil, cause a samurai doesn't know a shade of grey between black and white


Well I have to admit this might be a bit harsch but you might also interpret what you said this way, not that I believe they were ment that way offcourse, I hope so

Principles are no good things to live by if you only know what they do mean, as important is to know what they do not mean. (e.i. the principle of freedom doesn't give you the freedom to just take what you want from other ppl)