Wrist Pain

[Peter West]

How much power does a chiburi need?

[1stdan]

Peter, Chiburi could be the killer. I have been having a hard time with it lately. I think i have the idea of the mechanics down now (or at least as well as i can). But actuall practice is prolly more wrong than right. I am suffering a little hitch right now as a couple weeks ago i was practicing before class and did chiburi and got a litttttle too close to my head. Removed a small spot of skin. Just enough to hurt and bleed a little. No shinkens for me for some time I guess, Prolly better for all anyway. So now i am a little gun shy about hitting myself in the head. I have noticed The pain has started to be more frequent since I am concentrating on chiburi. Your diagnosis sound pretty spot on. And yes I do mouse right handed. A good long day of mousing does aggrevate the problem.

[chidokan]

I would agree with Peter... as an experiment, go through the move very slowly and examine the 'tightness' of your grip. Any white knuckles etc, relax. Do again holding the sword with ONLY the little finger... this should prove to you that you are gripping too tightly... Most junior grades strangle a sword rather than lightly hold it...

[1stdan]

Another dead on diagnosis. The most frequently heard words in my training are "Relax" "not so tense". I believe at this pint in my training its the hardest challenge I have had. Man you guys are good. You wouldn't happen to have next weeks winning lottery numbers by chance would you. Cant hurt to ask????????

[Peter West]

Cut your head during chiburi. With technique like that I think you've picked up the shinken too soon.

The handguard is there to protect yourself from your own blade, not the enemies! But it tells me exactly what you are doing wrong. When you are in position to start the swing (with your right hand beside your temple) your grip should be soft, loose and a little open with just enough tension in your ring finger and pinkie to stop the blade dipping back, no more. the weight of the sword should be resting on the web of skin between the thumb and forfinger. This is a very light grip, well, no grip really just supporting in a dynamic quilibrium.

here is the issue: I think you are holding the sword and pulling it down and forward. In fact by slightly increasing the pressure in the grip the kissaki should move up before your hand starts moving forwards (not down). Only slightly before, or you'll over extend your wrist early in the move. Hand doesn't go up, but forward, falling in a natural as if in a natural semi circle from the shoulder, but with your arm gradually straightening through the move. As your arm straightens and falls so the squeeze is progressively applied. No tighter than cracking an egg to start with, a little more once you have the timing to get sharpness in the action. The squeeze is in the ring finger and pinkie with a slight (Slight!!) feling of extending the thumb.

Take a look at this to see the shape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaJbDln7oGA

[chidokan]

2, 7, 13, 27, 42, 49. You owe me £2 million from the winnings, which should cover me building a dojo that you can visit any time you like.

[1stdan]

Cut your head during chiburi. With technique like that I think you've picked up the shinken too soon.

No No. No shinken for me. I did this with my Iaito. Had I had a shinken we prolly would not be conversing right now. Thanks for the advice. Ill give it a go and have my sensei straighten me up.

[Peter West]

No No. No shinken for me. I did this with my Iaito. Had I had a shinken we prolly would not be conversing right now. Thanks for the advice. Ill give it a go and have my sensei straighten me up.

How could you remove skin from the side of your head doing O-chiburi with an iaito? I can't put that much power in if I tried. I can't see how you could get part of the blade travelling fast enough for an iaito to cut you in that way. Oh well, it happened, so something is seriously wrong. Hope my description helps.

[1stdan]

How could you remove skin from the side of your head doing O-chiburi with an iaito?

Uhhhhh I guess its just a talent. I actually just removed enough to make it bleed slightly. There was no skull parts or gray matter. As for the tips yes they did help. One of my sensei scans these forums as well and had me run thru it a couple of times and pinted out what you were saying. It really helped. I think i will survive now. Thank you.

[still learning]

here is the issue: .... with your arm gradually straightening through the move. As your arm straightens and falls so the squeeze is progressively applied.

Peter; correct me if I am wrong [I often am...]... the arm-straightening should be accomplished at the moment in which the mono-uchi/kissaki would make contact with the enemy - - as in Soete Tsuki....?
... thus the arm does not straighten throughout the chiburi and up to the point of stopping/ending the action? [This 'continuous straightening' action has caused many elbow/wrist problems with several people, to my knowledge].

[Peter West]

Bill, what you say is how I do it. At first I get students to imagine a standing opponent and make the chiburi shape as if cutting diagonally at 45° across the chest, but without the strength of a cut. This means that the fullest extension of the elbow (not stiff straight, I mean as straight as you will make it not as straight as you can make it) happens when the arm is about horizontal. Once the student has broken the habit of flick/snap at the end of the move I get them to gradually slightly lower that point so that the movement is more natural.

[Toecutter]

Not sure if this will help but about a year or so ago I had pretty bad wrist pain, so bad I couldn’t take out a gallon of milk from the fridge without almost dropping it. The weird thing is it would sometimes be left wrist sometimes right. Anyway I got one of those cheap ace bandages that is velcro. Just wearing it during practice didn't do anything but if I wore it long term during the day it did wonders. Since then no pain so what ever I was doing seems to have been fixed but the ace bandage at least help alleviate the pain short term, long term I have no idea.

[Theodore]

I've found this to be helpful in developing forearms, hand and wrist strength for both kendo and fencing. Come to think of it I need to use it more with my left hand, since that is where my current problem lies.

[Peter West]

It's a waste of money for Iaido and kendo. you don't need that much power. If a slightly built 16 year old girl can do it in her first lesson then you guys don't need to build power, you need to learn how to control and NOT use it. See Tim (Chidokan)'s post above.

[1stdan]

Thats it, Darn sixteen year old girls they have it all; Youth, Fashion Good Chiburi. I think relaxing and not using strength has been the most difficult thing for me to try and overcome.